A quote from Al. O

[Lee123]

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

Folks...it doesn't help...and I don't like typing it....

But please remember you're issues are in the minority. It goes without saying that no manufacturer can produce something 100% flawless 100% of the time. It's a fact inherent to every mass-produced and even hand-built products.

I'm sort of new here, not an "old timer" like some of the folks in this thread, but I have a couple of sincere questions.

First and most important, please share your data proving that those with top problems are a MINORITY. I'd really like to see that. As an owner of a 2012 convertible that hasn't had problems, but doesn't put the top down near as much as I did with my last 2 convertibles because of fear of problems, I'd really love to see data proving that the MAJORITY of convertible owners don't have problems. Please, if you have such data share it. It would make me less reluctant to put the top up and down. I'm serious, not trying to be sarcastic. I tried to find this data, but was unable to even find out how many convertibles have been sold, much less what percentage have problems. If you've had better luck and have the data, please tell us.

Also, I'm just curious about another thing. Do you own a convertible? If you don't and if you don't have actual data to support your statement, it was really a cheap shot to say the problem only effects a minority.

[HDRDTD]

If you are fed up with your top issues, sell it and move on.

[95birdible]

Here are the results of the informal poll I did a while back.

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=174569

I love my car, hate my top issues. Why should I eat thousands of dollars in losses because of a design flaw? Just saying. What say you?

[Drago77]

Originally Posted by HDRDTD

If you are fed up with your top issues, sell it and move on.

Would you like to buy mine?

$50k!

428 RWHP, custom... everything- $10k under what's in it! Id love to start over without the stress... but as you can see, my price (including depreciation) keeps me trapped. I work for a living... can't afford to walk away!

Great theory tho!

[Blitz]

Originally Posted by HDRDTD

If you are fed up with your top issues, sell it and move on.

The irony there is then you would realize the value loss for a top with wear marks or leaks. Who's going to pay full price for that?

... not to mention the depreciation of any car in the first year.

I'm lucky that my car is no a DD, so I don't have to worry about it as much as others. I also love my ride and have no desire to get rid of it, but that doesn't change the fact that there's a problem and GM has yet to even publicly acknowledge it. Just man up, say you made a mistake and that you are working on it and will fix it at any cost (i.e. complete re-design).

Instead, you get a forum moderator who doesn't like GM taking heat and fears people like Fbodfather who ignores this thread entirely, may pack up his bags and leave the forum. Then who will keep the restless ZL1 natives happy?

... I may end up in timeout with Drago ...

[Drago77]

Originally Posted by Blitz

The irony there is then you would realize the value loss for a top with wear marks or leaks. Who's going to pay full price for that?

... not to mention the depreciation of any car in the first year.

I'm lucky that my car is no a DD, so I don't have to worry about it as much as others. I also love my ride and have no desire to get rid of it, but that doesn't change the fact that there's a problem and GM has yet to even publicly acknowledge it. Just man up, say you made a mistake and that you are working on it and will fix it at any cost (i.e. complete re-design).

Instead, you get a forum moderator who doesn't like GM taking heat and fears people like Fbodfather who ignores this thread entirely, may pack up his bags and leave the forum. Then who will keep the restless ZL1 natives happy?

... I may end up in timeout with Drago ...

Blitz-

If we both get in trouble we can meet up in Georgia, at one of those "We Bare All" diners in the meantime- discuss our rare problems! Lol! :tweetz:

[Bonanza7]

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

Folks...it doesn't help...and I don't like typing it....

But please remember you're issues are in the minority. It goes without saying that no manufacturer can produce something 100% flawless 100% of the time. It's a fact inherent to every mass-produced and even hand-built products.

Now, that does NOT discredit your issues, and I'm not trying to do so. When I read messages like the OP's...I just feel obligated to bring a little perspective to the conversation, and I think you're all highly intelligent people capable of seeing it.

You're all encouraged to press your dealers for repairs. At the moment...that's the best route that can be offered.

This is a LONG way from 100%, and their failure to get a fix proves how little concern they have for their customers.

[Blitz]

Originally Posted by Drago77

Blitz-

If we both get in trouble we can meet up in Georgia, at one of those "We Bare All" diners in the meantime- discuss our rare problems! Lol! :tweetz:

haha, yep.

I just wish people would get it that we do actually like our rides and that is why we want a fix or at least some answers.

[Drago77]

Originally Posted by Blitz

haha, yep.

I just wish people would get it that we do actually like our rides and that is why we want a fix or at least some answers.

Exactly! Love my ride- a LOT of blood, sweat, tears AND overtime into it!

Wish the drama was fixed... I never bought a new car before... prolly never will again because of this.

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by Bonanza7

and their failure to get a fix proves how little concern they have for their customers.

Well that's just a false statement. And it's comments like this that cause me to say what I do most of the time. :(

All I'm trying to do is provide some missing perspective...it's clear this is a problem for some cars, but if it were a massive issue, they wouldn't be building convertibles right now...

Given the horribly negative feedback I'm getting...I'll stop there and just say is this:

If you've got a problem with your top. You can have it replaced under warranty. If they didn't care about their customers, they'd issue a TSB telling their dealers to send you home. I haven't seen one....

[SUX2BU]

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

Well that's just a false statement. And it's comments like this that cause me to say what I do most of the time. :(

All I'm trying to do is provide some missing perspective...it's clear this is a problem for some cars, but if it were a massive issue, they wouldn't be building convertibles right now...

Given the horribly negative feedback I'm getting...I'll stop there and just say is this:

If you've got a problem with your top. You can have it replaced under warranty. If they didn't care about their customers, they'd issue a TSB telling their dealers to send you home. I haven't seen one....

How is that a false statement?

Here is why I think GM is leaving us out in the cold:
How many posts has Fbodfather (the only GM guy I know that posts in these forums) posted in a ZL1 thread? 322 http://www.camaro5.com/forums/search...rchid=13021355 looks like he posts daily!

How many posts has he posted in convertible threads? 26
How many posts in the last 9 months since these problems have surfaced? 0, ZERO, NADA, ZILCH! http://www.camaro5.com/forums/search...rchid=13021305


Check out this post from almost a year ago. http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showth...51#post2853651

If GM stopped building convertibles the media would be ALL over that story. That is the worst thing they could do.

MOST people that have a top replaced under warranty come out WORSE that before they had it replaced. Why would anyone subject their car to MORE problems if GM doesn't have a clear working fix?

[tramtwo]

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

Well that's just a false statement. And it's comments like this that cause me to say what I do most of the time. :(

All I'm trying to do is provide some missing perspective...it's clear this is a problem for some cars, but if it were a massive issue, they wouldn't be building convertibles right now...

Given the horribly negative feedback I'm getting...I'll stop there and just say is this:

If you've got a problem with your top. You can have it replaced under warranty. If they didn't care about their customers, they'd issue a TSB telling their dealers to send you home. I haven't seen one....

Your last post lacks tact, period.

Time for a mod on this site that owns a convertible. Dragoneye thanks for all you and the other mods do, but the perspective that is missing on this issue is from this very informative and progressive site.

I would have had my top replaced already but I like the fact it doesn't leak. I am positive that you have not followed this issue at all, how could you with your comments in this thread.

Oh and by the way you want to help... this thread should be moved to the general discussion section maybe more exposure would lead to more solutions and less conjecture.

[bulllett]

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

If you've got a problem with your top. You can have it replaced under warranty. If they didn't care about their customers, they'd issue a TSB telling their dealers to send you home. I haven't seen one....

I've pretty much stayed out of this because I'm not so sure its helpful, but DUDE, that's about as ignorant a statement as I can see. You are just totally uninformed on what is going on. You obviously haven't researched the problems that we are having so ALL of your comments are just fodder for the wastebasket now.

And a flip comment like a "TSB telling their dealers to send you home"? Yeah, brilliant

Thanks for all your help.

Editted in: here's a shorthand version of the problems we are facing with replacement (for those that don't want to read through the longer threads); http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=197172

[spikess581]

For having such a superior intellect and attitude to go with it Dragoneye seems to be a GM lackey and doing a good job of it. I see a future in politics for Him,Her whatever. Just ignore what is going on pee on the peoples shoes and tell them it's raining. They will eventually buy it because they are to stupid to know the difference. BUY a vert then come back.