MACE 25mm Insulator

[bmorecam]

mach, are you trying out the 25mm with vararam this week?

[Mach]

Originally Posted by bmorecam

mach, are you trying out the 25mm with vararam this week?

YES! Hopefully Saturday!! My insulators are collecting dust. Going to dad's shop!

[bmorecam]

Originally Posted by Mach

YES! Hopefully Saturday!! My insulators are collecting dust. Going to dad's shop!

good..I have a good feeling about this

[Blacktip]

Originally Posted by bmorecam

good..I have a good feeling about this

so,....when are you gonna give us the big surprise

[Agarc]

never he is a Tease i told him this already lol

[rtcat600man]

Originally Posted by Agarc

never he is a Tease i told him this already lol

He was looking at a twin turbo.................but it was a bemmer....

[bmorecam]

what are you guys talking about LOL

[Mach]

Originally Posted by bmorecam

what are you guys talking about LOL

Hey hey... don't mess with us. We want info and we want it now!

Shouldn't you be dynoing right now?

[bmorecam]

Got dyno today later this evening, and we shall find out if there's more little horses we can extract out

If you guys see a trifecta tune thread from me tonight then you know things went well.. if not, then you know we still have more work to do.

[rtcat600man]

Originally Posted by bmorecam

Got dyno today later this evening, and we shall find out if there's more little horses we can extract out

If you guys see a trifecta tune thread from me tonight then you know things went well.. if not, then you know we still have more work to do.

......Thank - you.......hoping t osee a trifecta thread....

[hapisok]

so...after doing a bit of research i found a nice little equation dealing with runner length in relation to TQ and RPM's. there was some discussion about my dyno's after the MACE insulator was added and the drastic fall off of TQ and HP around 6200RPM. it was first considered possibly due to weather, dyno, or other variables than can affect day to day dyno pulls. but after my research...i believe it is directly related to increasing the runner length by adding the 25mm insulator (.984 inch).

here it goes...

david vizard rule:

The general rule is that you should begin with a runner length of 17.8 cm for a 10,000 rpm peak torque location, from the intake opening to the plenum chamber. You add 4.3 cm to the runner length for every 1000 rpm that you want the peak torque to occur before the 10,000 rpm.

so yeah, we don't rev up to 10,000 but our redline is 7,000 and i don't know the actual runner length of our IM. (pre-MACE insulator days) so far i've shown consistent peak HP around 6500RPM and a fairly flat TQ with a steady drop off in TQ starting at 5500RPM @ 240ftlb ---> 7000RPM @200ftlb's. (i know this is backward from the way most people read 5,000,000ftlb's of TQ at 3500RPM but the emphasis is on the RPM, not peak TQ)

moving on...so 4.3cm = 1.69 inches. and 25mm = .984 inches. fyi...4.3cm is 43mm...if that isn't mind bottling then your doing good. so according to Mr. Vizard's theory, my peak TQ should shift to the left by roughly 580RPM.

25mm/43mm = .581 x 1000(RPM) = 581RPM

.984in/1.69in = .582 x 1000(RPM) = 582RPM

according to my dyno sheets with the MACE 25mm insulator, my peak TQ is now right around 5000RPM at 245ftlb's with a slightly more drastic fall off starting around 6200RPM reaching 200ftlb of TQ at 6550RPM.

its rough math and im not an engineer but thought i'd share my thoughts on what i found using the internets.

enjoy

[MACE_ENG]

Thanks for the added info hapisok

It's certainly reinforces the primary nature of how this family of products work from more of a practical level rather then just a theoretical one.

To recap what I've written earlier in this thread
http://camaro5.com/forums/showpost.p...&postcount=362

Originally Posted by MACE_ENG

As noted, the main reason the spacers work is not so much that they keep they manifold cool (which they certainly do) but is the fact that change the savaging properties of the manifold. In that the manifold is working more efficiently base on the engine's operating limits. This is based on Helmholtz resonance principle.

To put things into perspective, they could be made out of aluminum and still reel off similar figures on a dyno. Sure repeatability and power consistence on the other hand would fall but that is a different characteristic which is certainly influenced by material properties (thermal conductivity) of the spacer.insulator.

As for what size spacer? We have 3 sizes to give people options (6,12 and 25mm), primarily based on fitment consideration for various firewall, bonnet, intake constraints.

Thickness of a spacer/insulator with regards to runner length, is usually directly proportional to the gains down low, which is inversely proportional to the top end. Generally the latter isn't an issue at all, unless you plan on increasing the factory rev limit or consistently spending your time upper RPM band for competition work or fixated about peak power figures.

If your car is a daily driver, predominately spending most of your time in the lower to mid rev range then you would probably want to consider running the largest spacer/insulator you can.

Understandably we can be seen as being biased (however we do sell three different sizes), but the physics indicates that "optimal" lower RPM manifold scavenging is achieved with longer runner, while the inverse is true with short runners. Both with the same diameter runners of course

Hope this helps
Steve

It's the above reason that everyone who's purchased the 25mm item for their street duties have been quite happy and surprised with the real world performance of the product. If people religiously hang around the 5-7k power band mark then better value could be had with going a shorter item.

In saying that though I'm sure our plenum spacer which we'll be posting out to some people soon will improve top end performance (even with the 25mm item) by primarily improving air distribution and not just cooling

[hapisok]

can't wait to see the results...

thanks Steve

[MACE_ENG]

Originally Posted by hapisok

can't wait to see the results...

thanks Steve

Once I get over this pesky cold (burning up like crazy) I'll organize the paperwork