So what do I have to do to beat a 5.0

[Xorak]

Originally Posted by cbass

I don't think anyone is going to change their mind so it's best to drop the subject. Personally, I had a used 2012 mustang pop out of second gear on me during a test drive. It only had a little over 5K miles on it. Does one test drive mean anything? No, but what are the chances I was unlucky enough to drive one of the only broken transmission mustangs? Along with people posting their experience on forums and Ford's poor response to the situation I do not trust that transmission. I wish all of you to have good luck with yours, but I personally believe it's an issue. We can agree to disagree and leave it that.

And just FYI. Only the broken shaft I believe was a mustang with mods. The others were stock cars.

the odds were pretty low actually. less than 1% of production reported any transmission problems, and very few were stock. Ford's response is no different than what any other mfg would have been.

so far, my MT82 is doing just fine. shifts great, but then again, i know how to drive a manual

[cbass]

You're entitled to your opinion, but that doesnt change the fact that most Mt82 problems were from oversensitive owners who fabricated issues in their heads.

I think we will have to agree to disagree. I had one pop out of gear on me on a gentle test drive. If it makes you feel better to think I fabricated it in my head or I don't know how to drive manual, then so be it. Whatever helps you sleep better. I am glad this was a test drive instead of when I actually bought the car.

[BackToTheFuture]

Originally Posted by cbass

I think we will have to agree to disagree. I had one pop out of gear on me on a gentle test drive. If it makes you feel better to think I fabricated it in my head or I don't know how to drive manual, then so be it. Whatever helps you sleep better. I am glad this was a test drive instead of when I actually bought the car.

9k miles of stop and go traffic driving on one of the worst highways in Atlanta and around 1k miles or track days, autocross, and drag racing. I have not experienced a single issue with my car and I beat on it like a red headed step child.

The fact that you were on a "test drive" really makes me think you were trying to shift too fast and let the clutch out before fully getting into the next gear. Also as you said it was a test drive. So did you have a complete feeling for the throws between gears and the spacing between gates? Doubtful... so learn to shift.

[Deki]

Originally Posted by Seer

You're entitled to your opinion, but that doesnt change the fact that most Mt82 problems were from oversensitive owners who fabricated issues in their heads.

If they were all garbage, then mine would've went a long time ago. Like everything, random cars will have their defects.

If it's any consolation to you, my 5'1" wife, drives her MT82 5.0 with ease everyday and does not fear for her life that it is going to kill her

My bolts backed out at 900 miles and Ford fixed it with no questions asked. Got 15.5k on it now with no issues. I agree about the over sensative owners. It's the same 5 guys on every forum just making a big hoopla out of it. Some cars break down, some don't. My friend's 45th SS ended up going back to the dealer the second week for a bad shifter. Does that make all SS Camaros unreliable, or did he just get unlucky? I think it's the latter rather than the former.

[cbass]

The fact that you were on a "test drive" really makes me think you were trying to shift too fast and let the clutch out before fully getting into the next gear. Also as you said it was a test drive. So did you have a complete feeling for the throws between gears and the spacing between gates? Doubtful... so learn to shift.

I was not shifting fast. I was shifting slow. You can feel free to think I don't know how to drive. It doesn't bother me. Lots of internet assholes. Bottom line is Ford doesn't get my money. There is actually a video on youtube that shows a mustang popping out of gear the same way as mine did on decelleration.

My friend's 45th SS ended up going back to the dealer the second week for a bad shifter. Does that make all SS Camaros unreliable, or did he just get unlucky? I think it's the latter rather than the former.

No. Even with junk transmissions it doesn't make ALL mustangs unreliable. There were many cars known for junk tranmissions where owners ended up getting many miles out of them. I do think the problem is a little more severe on the mustang compared to the camaro. When you have a website called www.brokenstangs.com that might indicate there's a problem. The camaro has shifting problems at WOT at high rpm. The mustang has shifting problems even during typical street driving. The camaro driver who isn't aggressive can spend a lifetime without ever coming into the transmission issue. The mustang driver that isn't aggressive can experience problems.

That and I have had bad experiences with Chinese metal. The MT82 being made in China does not inspire much confidence. Yes some Chinese stuff I bought has been fine with a long life, but it's been inconsistent. I have had parts made in China fail catastrohpically like I haven't experience with parts from other countries. I wouldn't be surprised if gears chipping for some owners and not others isn't more to do with Chinese quality control than owner abuse or a design problem.

[BackToTheFuture]

Originally Posted by cbass

I was not shifting fast. I was shifting slow. You can feel free to think I don't know how to drive. It doesn't bother me. Lots of internet assholes. Bottom line is Ford doesn't get my money.

Cool story bro, tell it again... Are you really arrogant enough to think anyone cares who has your money? Bottom line is the internet is full of douches...

EDIT

PS

From what I have heard the LS3 must be real fragile. Some guy saw something where something happened... and stuff... and then he posted about it... so all LS3s must be garbage. Here I think I have a source...

Originally Posted by cbass

I was just reading some old threads where some valve train issues took out two LS3 engines. They both had cams. The devastation seen from the pictures was unreal with holes in the block and the rods toast. I won't say I have much experience with performance work and most of it is with Harley's. However, when there are valve train issues with those motors you end up with broken valves, piston damage, etc. Rarely if ever do you see damage to the rods and never have I seem damage that great to the bottom end and never to the degree that is blows holes through cases.

Is the LS3 bottom end fragile/weak compared to other motors?

PWND

[cbass]

Cool story bro, tell it again... Are you really arrogant enough to think anyone cares who has your money? Bottom line is the internet is full of douches...

"Bro". In that case why the hell do you care what my opinion is of the MT82? Who cares if I think the transmission is junk if you are happy with yours and have no concerns about it? Why is it ok to have someone post their positive experience about it, but jump on someone when they post their negative experience with it? Let both sides be put out there and let people decide for themselves who are on the fence about the car. You have your opinion and I have mine.

Hell. Maybe you should work for Ford and then you can deny any problem with their cars by saying the person doesn't know how to drive. Although I hear Ford is doing that very well by themselves these days.

From what I have heard the LS3 must be real fragile. Some guy saw something where something happened... and stuff... and then he posted about it... so all LS3s must be garbage. Here I think I have a source...

You know what. I still hold the opinion that the LS3 is more fragile than I like. The hypereutectic pistons it uses are considered on the weak side. Those types of pistons are much more sensitive to detonation than other piston types and I would be happier if they weren't used. Unfortunately, the coyote motor also uses hypereutectic pistons as do the HEMI engines. So they are all in the same boat. Are you going to throw a temper tandrum if I also call the coyote motor "fragile"?

Welcome to critical thinking and being consistent with your opinion regardless of who makes it. Welcome to being able to say I like this about a car and I don't like this about it instead of saying anything Ford makes is touched by the hand of God and nothing can touch it.

This is not just my opinion either. Other people hold it too, but maybe you can find a way to discredit them too? Maybe they're shitty drivers as well;

Pistons fail (any power level): Detonation from excessive boost, an overly aggressive tune, and/or bad gas breaks the tops off the stock hypereutectic pistons, usually on the intake side. 20 to 21 degrees of lead is pushing things under high load, WOT, cautions Modern Muscle’s Dave Weber. Replace with a high-quality aftermarket forged piston.

Read more: http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/g...#ixzz1v9jMICdK

Piston disintegration (nitrous or high boost): The pistons remain hypereutectic, so don't expect them to last long under high boost or a big nitrous shot. On the other hand, special oil jets enhance pin oiling, making them marginally better than previous three-valve pistons.


Read more: http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/g...#ixzz1v9kaSUHA

[Seer]

Originally Posted by cbass

I was not shifting fast. I was shifting slow. You can feel free to think I don't know how to drive. It doesn't bother me. Lots of internet assholes. Bottom line is Ford doesn't get my money. There is actually a video on youtube that shows a mustang popping out of gear the same way as mine did on decelleration.



No. Even with junk transmissions it doesn't make ALL mustangs unreliable. There were many cars known for junk tranmissions where owners ended up getting many miles out of them. I do think the problem is a little more severe on the mustang compared to the camaro. When you have a website called www.brokenstangs.com that might indicate there's a problem. The camaro has shifting problems at WOT at high rpm. The mustang has shifting problems even during typical street driving. The camaro driver who isn't aggressive can spend a lifetime without ever coming into the transmission issue. The mustang driver that isn't aggressive can experience problems.

That and I have had bad experiences with Chinese metal. The MT82 being made in China does not inspire much confidence. Yes some Chinese stuff I bought has been fine with a long life, but it's been inconsistent. I have had parts made in China fail catastrohpically like I haven't experience with parts from other countries. I wouldn't be surprised if gears chipping for some owners and not others isn't more to do with Chinese quality control than owner abuse or a design problem.

A few mustangs have had issues, not all of them, again less than 1%.

The Tremec TR6060 is made in Mexico... not real inspiring either. you're very difficult to even have a discussion with, so I'll make it real simple. The 2011-2013 5.0 can run mid 11's with simple bolt ons/tires/tune. CAI, X pipe, drag radials and a tune... what did your SS run with the same mods again?

[cbass]

The Tremec TR6060 is made in Mexico... not real inspiring either.

No it isn't. That's why it doesn't surprise me that the TR6060 has issues. See I can stick with my opinion on something regardless of who makes it and say the good and bad without blinders on.

However, in my experience and this is just me, the metallurgy and assembly that comes out of Mexico is above what comes out of China. Neither is ideal, but I will choose Mexico over China.

And in my opinion. Notice MY opinion. I believe the TR6060 is less prone to problems and has less severe issues than the MT82. You can disagree with that and I don't crap all over your opinion or thoughts. Why do you have a problem with mine?

You won't convince me and I won't convince you, but I don't belittle you.

[Witt]

Originally Posted by cbass

You know what. I still hold the opinion that the LS3 is more fragile than I like. The hypereutectic pistons it uses are considered on the weak side. Those types of pistons are much more sensitive to detonation than other piston types and I would be happier if they weren't used. Unfortunately, the coyote motor also uses hypereutectic pistons as do the HEMI engines. So they are all in the same boat. Are you going to throw a temper tandrum if I also call the coyote motor "fragile"?

I wouldn't call any of those 3 fragile. They are designed for reliability at stock engine redline and engine load with quite a bit of overhead engineered on top. If there is an alternative available, would you pay the extra price for a set of forged pistons that are unnecessary at stock and mildly modded levels, or more importantly would the general public where the majority won't be buying any power adders or increasing engine speed? For one of those manufacturers to include higher priced pistons that are completely unnecessary at stock levels without the other two doing the same would be an engineering and marketing failure.

There are very few mass produced engines currently made using alloys "stronger" than a cast hyper blend. The Roadrunner (higher piston speed), LS9 (high cylinder pressure and EGT), and Condor (high pressure as well) are the couple currently produced domestic offerings that come to mind. None of these are exactly affordable for a couple reasons, one being the piston forging process used for each.

Just because a piston is hyper in alloy doesn't mean its weak. There are a lot more factors that influence rotating assembly longetivity than your google searches will tell you. Head and exhaust design, engine and piston speed, bore size, and volumetric effiency are a few.

[Seer]

Originally Posted by cbass

No it isn't. That's why it doesn't surprise me that the TR6060 has issues. See I can stick with my opinion on something regardless of who makes it and say the good and bad without blinders on.

However, in my experience and this is just me, the metallurgy and assembly that comes out of Mexico is above what comes out of China. Neither is ideal, but I will choose Mexico over China.

And in my opinion. Notice MY opinion. I believe the TR6060 is less prone to problems and has less severe issues than the MT82. You can disagree with that and I don't crap all over your opinion or thoughts. Why do you have a problem with mine?

You won't convince me and I won't convince you, but I don't belittle you.

That less than 1% of the MT82 equipped cars (GT and V6 have issues), but it seems like thousands of TR6060 equipped cars have an issue with shifting into second over 5000 rpm?

Your comparison of mexico and china is more like would you rather like a kick to the balls or a punch in the face? Neither are ideal.

You haven't answered my question, what did your car run with those basic bolt ons? Which this is the main topic of the thread, you decided to go on a quest to derail it with quality issues that affect a small portion of the cars.

[BackToTheFuture]

Originally Posted by cbass

You won't convince me and I won't convince you, but I don't belittle you.

Actually you were the first to start getting defensive and call people names, but now that you have been verbally PWND you are calling foul.

Also I don't think I should go work for Ford because they may not care for the fact that I also have a 2010 SS...

In regards to the transmission when the mustang first came out my mind was blown by the fact that they didn't put the TR 6060 in it. As far as the MT 82 is concerned I believe along with the other mustang owner that there were some quality control issues with the transmission when it first came out. They have since been eliminated. It should have almost been expected considering it was a completely new transmission. The 6060 was being used in several vehicles before going into the camaro. It had several problems in those other vehicles that were resolved before ending up in the camaro.

[GR8PUMKN]

Originally Posted by Seer

A few mustangs have had issues, not all of them, again less than 1%.

The Tremec TR6060 is made in Mexico... not real inspiring either. you're very difficult to even have a discussion with, so I'll make it real simple. The 2011-2013 5.0 can run mid 11's with simple bolt ons/tires/tune. CAI, X pipe, drag radials and a tune... what did your SS run with the same mods again?

Don't you mean auto mustang or are the manuals going this fast? I can tell you that all times (3) I been to the track, mustangs were definitely faster than 5th gen camaros. Most camaros were 13 second cars. 2 of 20 or so were in 12s. Mine and a black one. I have bolt ons headers n tune. 12.60@118 my best. Other camaro was louder than mine and stick also ran 12.55. I didn't see one 5.0 mustang in 13s. All were mid 12 or low 12. I didn't see one go 11. Auto or stick. If auto you need a stall converter to run 11s mustang and hopefully camaro too.

[cbass]

I wouldn't call any of those 3 fragile. They are designed for reliability at stock engine redline and engine load with quite a bit of overhead engineered on top. If there is an alternative available, would you pay the extra price for a set of forged pistons that are unnecessary at stock and mildly modded levels, or more importantly would the general public where the majority won't be buying any power adders or increasing engine speed? For one of those manufacturers to include higher priced pistons that are completely unnecessary at stock levels without the other two doing the same would be an engineering and marketing failure.

Forging would be awesome, but I am not expecting a forged piston at these price levels. You can still have a cast piston that isn't a hypereutectic cast piston. In my opinion they respond poorly to any detonation and are more prone to detonation damage. This isn't just in a forged induction or nitrious environment, but also becomes a concern naturally aspirated. You have to watch carefully the gas quality and how agressive you get with a tune with hypereutectic pistons. Manufacturers like them because of a tighter cold-fit.