GM Buying Back 200M Shares from Government

[Rhyder]

Originally Posted by Angrybird 12

I would rather see the government give money to a company that keeps people working than to a bunch of lazy bums that refuse to get any kind of job.

oh like to the military? they keep 1000 times more people in work than GM ever did yet for some reason they keep cutting that self same military...........kind of hypocritical of them isnt it? :P

Not that I dont agree with you, just pointing out the shallowness of the poly's talk......

[Angrybird 12]

Originally Posted by Rhyder

oh like to the military? they keep 1000 times more people in work than GM ever did yet for some reason they keep cutting that self same military...........kind of hypocritical of them isnt it? :P

Not that I dont agree with you, just pointing out the shallowness of the poly's talk......

Wasn't talking about the military bud. I fully support and respect them, you know who I was referring to.

[derklug]

Realistically, GM's stock won't hit anything near $69/share anytime soon, the break even point for Treasury. The continuing ownership by the Government has been a turn off for potential investors worried that decisions will be made for political rather than practical reasons. Losing $12b to allow GM to be independant will be better for the Treasury in the long run when GM gains strength and increases it's workforce.

[CamaroSkooter]

Originally Posted by Angrybird 12

I would rather see the government give money to a company that keeps people working than to a bunch of lazy bums that refuse to get any kind of job.

I would rather neither one of those things happen

[motorhead]

I have freinds that don't like the fact that I still buy GM cars and trucks. One of them bought nothing but GM as long as I've known him. Now he buys fords.

[Angrybird 12]

Originally Posted by CamaroSkooter

I would rather neither one of those things happen

So you would rather GM be gone now with no Camaro, no place to get replacement parts, no place to get warranty repairs, and many thousands more people out of work not only from GM but from a bunch of parts suppliers.

[motorhead]

Originally Posted by Angrybird 12

So you would rather GM be gone now with no Camaro, no place to get replacement parts, no place to get warranty repairs, and many thousands more people out of work not only from GM but from a bunch of parts suppliers.

I know the government wouldn't bail my company out if I ran into trouble. That's the main thing that upset me ,but not enough to stop buying their cars. It's the governments fault for bailing them out not GM's for accepting it. People should be mad at the government if they want to be mad.

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by Angrybird 12

So you would rather GM be gone now with no Camaro, no place to get replacement parts, no place to get warranty repairs, and many thousands more people out of work not only from GM but from a bunch of parts suppliers.

I think he meant:

He's like to not give treasury funds to companies...and he'd like not to see lazy bums that don't want to work.

[Angrybird 12]

Originally Posted by Mr. Wyndham

I think he meant:

He's like to not give treasury funds to companies...and he'd like not to see lazy bums that don't want to work.

They gave GM the money in exchange for a stake in the company, right? Not the same as giving people money month after month and not caring if they work or not.

When you buy stock you are giving the company money for a stake in the company, hoping you can get your money back or at least part of it if the company stays in business. That's what the Government did.

I just wonder how many thinks that they wouldn't have paid the same amount in taxes even if there had been no government bailout? Did it take any more money out of your pocket?

How much in taxes would the Government lost from a company going out of business and the many thousands of people that would have lost their job? How much more would the government have to have paid those same workers in unemployment benefits for the last 2 years?
At least the government is going to be recouping most of its investment in GM.
That's what I meant by what I said...

[Rhyder]

Originally Posted by Angrybird 12

They gave GM the money in exchange for a stake in the company, right? Not the same as giving people money month after month and not caring if they work or not.

When you buy stock you are giving the company money for a stake in the company, hoping you can get your money back or at least part of it if the company stays in business. That's what the Government did.

I just wonder how many thinks that they wouldn't have paid the same amount in taxes even if there had been no government bailout? Did it take any more money out of your pocket?

How much in taxes would the Government lost from a company going out of business and the many thousands of people that would have lost their job? How much more would the government have to have paid those same workers in unemployment benefits for the last 2 years?
At least the government is going to be recouping most of its investment in GM.
That's what I meant by what I said...

I doubt the unemployment would of been to the tune of 158 billion and counting..the continuous tax forgiveness and the government taking on the cost of all recalls and repairs for vehicles made 2009 and earlier among just a couple things that will continue to cost us......

and 49 billion in future forgiven tax has nothing to do with the stock, the stock given was a relatively small amount compared to the total GM received. I could go on and on, this was a boondoggle to rival the bank bailout...

Its not so much whether it needed to be done or not, its that it was handled and done in a criminal way that should not be accepted as all right in any way shape or form.....

[AZCamaroFan]

last i checked the Government has spent 16.3 Trillion it didn't have, but people only cry about certain things it was spent on. I'm not happy GM had to be bailed out, but how much has been wasted by the Defense Dept? among many other things.

[Angrybird 12]

Originally Posted by Rhyder

I doubt the unemployment would of been to the tune of 158 billion and counting..the continuous tax forgiveness and the government taking on the cost of all recalls and repairs for vehicles made 2009 and earlier among just a couple things that will continue to cost us......

and 49 billion in future forgiven tax has nothing to do with the stock, the stock given was a relatively small amount compared to the total GM received. I could go on and on, this was a boondoggle to rival the bank bailout...

Its not so much whether it needed to be done or not, its that it was handled and done in a criminal way that should not be accepted as all right in any way shape or form.....

You believe what you want and I'll believe what I want.

I think everyone here will agree that they are happy that GM didn't shut down and we have had 4 years of Camaros and a future that will include new generations of Camaros to enjoy.

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by Rhyder

oh like to the military? they keep 1000 times more people in work than GM ever did yet for some reason they keep cutting that self same military...........kind of hypocritical of them isnt it? :P

Not that I dont agree with you, just pointing out the shallowness of the poly's talk......

Ok you used "ever".

Currently GM has about 100,000 employees. Multiply by 1,000 as you suggest and you get 100 Million soldiers. Not quite.

In it's hey day GM had 450,000 employees. Again multiply by 1,000..........as you suggest............and you get 450 Million soldiers.

Your math is just a teeny tiny bit off.

Originally Posted by Rhyder

I doubt the unemployment would of been to the tune of 158 billion and counting..the continuous tax forgiveness and the government taking on the cost of all recalls and repairs for vehicles made 2009 and earlier among just a couple things that will continue to cost us......

and 49 billion in future forgiven tax has nothing to do with the stock, the stock given was a relatively small amount compared to the total GM received. I could go on and on, this was a boondoggle to rival the bank bailout...

Its not so much whether it needed to be done or not, its that it was handled and done in a criminal way that should not be accepted as all right in any way shape or form.....

So where are you getting these numbers?

I'm pretty sure the government is NOT paying for any warranty prior to 2009 any more than they are paying pension obligations prior to 2009. What I recall was the Government backed the GM warranties during the bankruptcy to assure buyers in that period they would be covered in the event GM "went buh bye"

But yes, there are some out year tax advantages for sure.

But $158 billion???? That's some number spinning right there. Just not sure who is spinning them.

[Rhyder]

I retract my statement, as said below it was not called for and flippant.


the beginning numbers for the bailout

The money the government spent adds up quickly: $50 billion in TARP bailout funds, a special exemption waiving payment of $45.4 billion in taxes on future profits, an exemption for all product liability on cars sold before the bailout, $360 million in stimulus funds, and the $7,500 tax credit for those who buy the Chevy Volt. GM’s share of other programs is harder to quantify but includes, for example, some of the $15.2 billion that went to Cash for Clunkers. The government sponsored (read payed for) 18 billion dollars of advertising to inform the public about the bailout and how it was a necessary move.

The exemption for all car liabilities before the bailout is the key, what that is is the government taking financial responsibility for all recalls, lawsuits etc etc, that is not quantifiable as they are still ongoing.

Also I don't have the figures on the credits claimed on the Leaf but I cant imagine that is a huge number, so we will let that go.

They were given a 6.7billion dollar loan just prior to this that they were not required to pay back. also a year after the bailout they were forgiven another 31.3 billion in export/import taxes as they were starting to flag again.


We are at 145 billion already..thats without the cash for clunkers or unfair market ploy of the Leaf credit..and we are still paying for it.....

Thats roughly 1,450,000 per person at 100000 (think it was 91k pre bailout) employees to keep them at work, not that there is near that many working for them currently, I think the last figure I saw was 48000 (we are only counting the actual GM employees not the dealerships as GM repeatedly claims, they dont work for them) so in a way the bailout failed miserably at its proposed purpose, of keeping 100,000 people employed.

At 1,450,000 just to keep people employed, that's above and beyond salary, they could of trained every unemployed person in the US to get a quality job.....

The stock has dropped to less than half what it was worth right after bailout, so it failed to keep the company up in value.

basically every one of the proposed reasons for doing this bailout was a failure.....

you cant even use the reason that it kept the company around, there are several interested parties chomping at the bit to get into the US market, they would of had new management but they still would of been there......