Header install hitting steering shaft

[Camarojt]

Originally Posted by Mr. Unassailable

Glad to see you got it worked out. I am a weld inspector, have been for a pretty good while. I've probably looked at and ultrasonically (phased array) inspected several thousand welds. That said. I spent big money on a big name (Elevate - Volvo Parts) down pipe for one of my turbo cars. After being disappointed I spent little money on a OBX. I later sold the big money DP and kept the OBX. With my SS I went OBX first. The welds are crap, flat out crap. But the parts are all good quality 316L Stainless Steel. The flanges are good, the pipes are good, the bends are good, the welds are crap. Now, that said. I will forever buy good quality material that has been craptastically welded together and spend $100 getting it welded up better. I am right now still running my crap welded OBX headers on my 466 RWHP camaro. 9k miles on them and I drive it hard. No problems yet, but when they do crack, I'll gladly spend the $100 getting them reinforced.

I'm just throwing that out there for those that think the big name means something.

FYI also.

I have a Passport 9500ci on my car ($1700 radar detector)
Jannetty Racing cam kit
NT05R drag radials
Magnaflow cat back
JL audio stereo upgrades
ETC.

I'm into quality, trust me. Headers are metal that is bend and welded. That's it.

I hear ya. There are pros and cons to each direction you go in headers. Other than my header hitting the shaft, I am happy with them. It's not about being able to spend more or less. I have more in my stereo than what some guys have in their performance mods, so it's not that money can't be spent! I personally feel that this money can be spent elsewhere. But that's just my opinion. I think there are great options out there for everybody.

[davidcroft]

For those of us that aren't weld inspectors or don't want to hammer on a new set of headers....
I guess I way overpaid

[Mr. Unassailable]

Originally Posted by davidcroft

For those of us that aren't weld inspectors or don't want to hammer on a new set of headers....
I guess I way overpaid

Guess you missed the part where I said I didn't do anything to mine, 9k miles so far. Went on with ease, no Fitment issues. Maybe I just got a smoking deal...


- Clayton. Official C5Fail4 hater.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by Mr. Unassailable

Glad to see you got it worked out. I am a weld inspector, have been for a pretty good while. I've probably looked at and ultrasonically (phased array) inspected several thousand welds. That said. I spent big money on a big name (Elevate - Volvo Parts) down pipe for one of my turbo cars. After being disappointed I spent little money on a OBX. I later sold the big money DP and kept the OBX. With my SS I went OBX first. The welds are crap, flat out crap. But the parts are all good quality 316L Stainless Steel. The flanges are good, the pipes are good, the bends are good, the welds are crap. Now, that said. I will forever buy good quality material that has been craptastically welded together and spend $100 getting it welded up better. I am right now still running my crap welded OBX headers on my 466 RWHP camaro. 9k miles on them and I drive it hard. No problems yet, but when they do crack, I'll gladly spend the $100 getting them reinforced.

I'm just throwing that out there for those that think the big name means something.

FYI also.

I have a Passport 9500ci on my car ($1700 radar detector)
Jannetty Racing cam kit
NT05R drag radials
Magnaflow cat back
JL audio stereo upgrades
ETC.

I'm into quality, trust me. Headers are metal that is bend and welded. That's it.

How could the headers last as long as you said they do (and others say they do) if the welds are crap? Despite what others say, there is no rock solid evidence that any brand lasts longer than any other brand. This car hasn't been out for 10-15 years. So how does anyone (including yourself) know that the "crap" welds won't last just as long as the "quality material" you mention? 9K miles with hard driving and no problems? I mean, just sayin...crap welds shouldn't even last THAT long. Others have had the headers for more miles than that. Maybe they aren't crap.

[Mr. Unassailable]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

How could the headers last as long as you said they do (and others say they do) if the welds are crap? Despite what others say, there is no rock solid evidence that any brand lasts longer than any other brand. This car hasn't been out for 10-15 years. So how does anyone (including yourself) know that the "crap" welds won't last just as long as the "quality material" you mention? 9K miles with hard driving and no problems? I mean, just sayin...crap welds shouldn't even last THAT long. Others have had the headers for more miles than that. Maybe they aren't crap.

That's kinda my point. And that's why I installed them how they were. They aren't "crap" welds. They are crap welds. I've heat cycled these things pretty hard and have no issues yet.




- Clayton. Official C5Fail4 hater.

[Mr. Unassailable]

This is what happens eventually.



I could give a whole metallurgy class, but I'll leave it at this. Metal has a grain structure to it, everytime you heat cycle your headers you're breaking it down more and more. The area next to the weld, referred to as the HAZ (heat affected zone) will break down and fail first because it was subjected to high temps during welding also. It's not a matter of if, but when will any header begin to crack. These cracks are most commonly on the toe of the weld and grow inward through the base material (pipe).


- Clayton. Official C5Fail4 hater.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by Mr. Unassailable

This is what happens eventually.



I could give a whole metallurgy class, but I'll leave it at this. Metal has a grain structure to it, everytime you heat cycle your headers you're breaking it down more and more. The area next to the weld, referred to as the HAZ (heat affected zone) will break down and fail first because it was subjected to high temps during welding also. It's not a matter of if, but when will any header begin to crack. These cracks are most commonly on the toe of the weld and grow inward through the base material (pipe).


- Clayton. Official C5Fail4 hater.

Right, and this will happen to any header over time...whether it's Kooks, TSP, SW, or any other header. But we don't know how long it will be until this occurs. So 10 years from now, if it has been proven that cheaper headers have a typical life span of let's say 3-5 years and about 25,000 to 35,000 miles, and the more expensive brands prove to be trustworthy for let's say 8-10 years and about 70K to 100K miles, then people can say that the cheaper headers are crap in comparison. But to say that now when the longest anyone has had headers on this car is probably about 2 years, maybe 3 for a very small amount of people...and less than 20K-30K miles is just not logical.

[2SSRSinBama]

I was involved in ATV repair for years... there was a time when Chinese knockoffs of Honda products flooded the market here in America... not too long ago... 2008? If I had a dollar for every frame I had to weld on one of those pieces of shit, well, I did very well back then... lmao

anyone who thinks Chinese steel is of the same quality as American steel... has never struck it with a welding rod or flux...

learn to weld, try to weld that Chinese crap, and let me know how much "quality" is there


you pay for what you get

[Muscle SS]

Originally Posted by MarylandSpeed

No company makes perfect product all the time...it's impossible with humans making them.

The difference is, the second someone has an issue with a premium header they run to the forum, and tell everyone like they got ripped off. Never mind it is a simple mistake easily fixable. Conversely, when someone buys a cheap, knock off, chinese header, they are much less likely to go publicly post it because they know they will hear "told you so". Kinda like you proved in being afraid to say what brand it is.

At the end of the day, it's your money. If you are comfortable installing a no name something that needs to be beat on to fit so you can save some money, more power to you....

You guys always make me laugh.

[Muscle SS]

Originally Posted by Camarojt

http://http://ls1tech.com/forums/lt1...need-help.html
Kooks thread issue.

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showth...steering+shaft
this one is on Stainless Works. surprised me.
Originally Posted by casper sc/1ss/rs
i fixed my header,stainless works would not send me another header they just told me to put a little ding in it and it would be ok witch was what i was going to do anyway but considering i still had to take the header off to fix it i thought i would try to get one that was right instead of one that was rigged up after all they were almost a 1000 dollars they should be right imo.

http://http://www.camaro5.com/forums...steering+shaft
Doug Thorley issue this one talks about the issue possibly starting in the 2011's

http://http://www.camaro5.com/forums...d.php?t=244454
Dynatech issue: but this thread explains alot of what i saw on my setup. If you read it you will see that Dynatech may not be to blame for this nor any brand.

This is from Ivan @ Southwest Speed
Im convinced that some cars come with the motors off by just a 1/16".

We've seen just about every header get damn close while the same header on a different car you could drive a truck between.

There are differences in the cars too. Can't place all the blame on Dynatech.

(...weird coming from a non-dealer of them right?)

Ivan

http://http://www.camaro5.com/forums...steering+shaft
this one shows a couple of guys commenting that Kooks are hitting steering shaft.

i think this is enough to show you what i was seeing. There was some more but im not gonna post them all. Point is that this idea that only cheap headers have fitment issues isnt accurate. It happens to all of them at times. The good news is that most of the time it can be fixed.

This is one reason I went with OBX, seems to have the best track record.

[litle88]

Originally Posted by Muscle SS

This is one reason I went with OBX, seems to have the best track record.

I seriously doubt it!

[thahemp]

Your OBX welds will outlast our American economy.

[thahemp]

Originally Posted by 2SSRSinBama

I was involved in ATV repair for years... there was a time when Chinese knockoffs of Honda products flooded the market here in America... not too long ago... 2008? If I had a dollar for every frame I had to weld on one of those pieces of shit, well, I did very well back then... lmao

anyone who thinks Chinese steel is of the same quality as American steel... has never struck it with a welding rod or flux...

learn to weld, try to weld that Chinese crap, and let me know how much "quality" is there


you pay for what you get

I wanna comment on this. Chinese metal is a freakin crapshoot. I've had anything from welds that blow through immediately, to metal that literally bubbles back up as it cools.

[2SSRSinBama]

like I said the people who work with it everyday with a welder, know its shit compared to American steel... I can pick up steel out of a pile and would bet good money, I could determine which country it was produced in... you want a quality foreign steel? Germany