Camaro Z28 rumors dampened by Bob Lutz, G8 will (update: NOT) survive

[WCFB-Russ]

while i dont have time to read the whole thing - i wanna point out somethign that will allay everyones fears.

they will not be turnin the camaro into a 4banger/6 cylinder sports coupe anytime at all.

what lutz was mentioning was "future" sports cars - meaning anything that GM would come up with in the future. now, this iteration of the camaro (the 5th gen) might be the last to offer a v8 as a standard option, but the v8 will always be there. the current production of the camaro will not change - why would it - it would cost them too much money to do so.

Also when you are developing ideas and planning things out you have to take into consideration that if you have already started to build something, changing it midstream is always a hassle. its much easier to finish the project you are working on and hold off on new ideas till you reach your next project. i imagine that GM is going to try to come up with some new car - say the impala ss - and offer it with the 4cyl turbo / 6cyl options with a v8 performance tweak down the line.

and if everyone would stop panicking and think logically about this whole situation you would draw the same conclusions i have.

Hoping the Z28 hits floors soon...

-R

[Supermans]

Originally Posted by The_Blur

I think you're onto a very important point that has been overlooked. The cost of purchasing the car is realistically the most significant reason that the traditional muscle car is no longer the dominant American sports car is that the V8, without any options, costs $31,000. In 1967, that sort of pricing never would have sold. Even with inflation, that cost has gone up to compensate for new technology. As a result, the V8 has gone up in price. Those buyers who first drove a Camaro at 16 years of age are now starting with Cobalts and Aveos. It's sad, but that's part of why people keep talking about the end of the muscle car.

Instead of experiencing love for the first time behind 8 cylinders of a roaring Camaro, kids are experiencing lesser feelings behind a torque-free FWD 4-banger.

You're right. These comparatively inferior 4-cylinder compacts are taking over because there is less cost to start driving them. Take a look at all of us on Camaro5. Many of us are here because the sleek styling of that American-made V8 have caused us to fall in love with a car that reminds us of a car we have not driven in ages. Others are attracted by the pure power for an affordable price. This latter group could also be looking at a faster, sleeker Corvette, but we chose the Camaro because it is less expensive for now. Afterwards, they will contact Lingenfelter or Hennessey, spend a wad of cash, and have an even faster Camaro, knowing all the time that the same money could have gone into the down payment of another sleek, fast car.

In less words, cost might have a lot to do with the change from big engines to small engines.

Yes, cost is a big factor.. However you feel the V8 is safe, even if a more fuel efficient, same power in HP and Torque, gets created for the mainstream camaro and other cars? I do believe that the V8 will live on longer in more expensive vehicles like the corvette where conservative enthusiasts would simply walk away from anything but an 8. However the Camaro market doesn't need a V8 to survive sad to say even though most of us may disappear if one is not offered in the future. THe Camaro's best selling model will be the cheaper ones, and a 4 cylinder Camaro will be the cheapest and probably sell the most if offered since the crowd that most can afford a 4 cylinder Camaro would be High School kids and college kids with average money.. It takes about 5 to 10 years of hard work to be able to afford a $30,000 car as well as insurance and have a mortgage and kids at the same time.. If you are single and living at home at the age of thirty, owning a $30,000 and even a $40,000 car is much easier if you have a full-time job and your parents pay for everything else... Blur, you are correct that money has a lot to do with everything..That is way the V8 SS is priced at $30,000 since anything higher would not compete against the Mustang GT.. I do believe GM is headed in the wrong direction simply because of who they will be hiring to replace the elder retirees who are being offered very nice packages... It is sad for me to say this but I do see some major changes in GM's lineup that will be there simply to promote a change in the way we all view smaller more fuel efficient cars while they slowly make it harder for us to buy the larger gas guzzling V8's...Hence the purpose would be to faze them out slowly but surely..

[jaymac332]

Originally Posted by azfan

I have two points.
1. I really wonder how many people crying over the Z28 have the money to buy a 50K Camaro. If you want the power that bad you can get yourself a supercharger. The SS has 430HP! it's the most powerful Camaro ever. How many people would/could buy one, or just want to read about it in a magazine tested against the GT500?
2. Lutz never said the V8 was dead, and if it does die it wont be because that's what he wants. We know About CAFE. Turbo 4's and V6's are what's gonna happen. At the moment we should be more concerned with hoping the Camaro sells for the next 6 years, to make sure there is another one at all.
Heck, if the Camaro was lighter a high HP V6 wouldn't be so bad. What's in the Porsche 911? a V6. And it runs with the Corvette.

My thoughts exactly. Lutz only said that they will be offering high performance 4 and 6 cylinders, he never once said in that article that they would stop producing V8s. I cannot believe that so many of you interpreted it so badly. So there wont be a Z28, I am not too broken up about it though it would be cool to have one. There will still be an SS, and yes, it will still have a V8. Also, I welcome the G8 as a Chevy. Great car, I would seriouslly consider buying it.

[FenwickHockey65]

Has anyone considered the possibility that GM's holding off on the Z28 until sales die down? When everyone and their cousin has a Camaro, GM will need to start doing updates and MCEs to keep the Camaro selling, and a Z28 would fulfill that role.

[stovt001]

In my very short life and even shorter driving life I have heard many chicken littles proclaiming the falling of the V8 sky. Times change, technology adapts, but I am confident we'll still see V8s in our future. The 70s and 80s didn't kill them off. Insane gasoline prices in Europe didn't kill them off there. They'll be different, no doubt, but that's the exciting part. If you want a relatively low-tech V8 where power is simply a function of big superchargers and bigger cubes, then yeah, this might be the end of that, but all sorts of new engine technologies will let the V8 live on.

[Chemical]

didn't we get a *wink* *nudge* *wink* *wink* from The Fbodfather about this?

[joerod97]

Good article in the NY Times about the Camaro doing it's part to save GM

[fastball]

At this very moment, GM engineers better be busy designing a very powerfull, high reving, reliable twin turbo V6 capable of 400 hp and 7000 rpm - THATs going to be the engine design of the future - THAT is going to be what people look for performance and efficiency.

Long gone are the days of low end brute torque. The Camaro and Corvette have that, but the days of that kind of power are limited.

What Americans are going to have to do is learn how to drive high reving engines. Where the bulk of your powerband is between 3500-7500. Believe me, those kind of engines can be just as fun if not moreso than big block muscle.

GM needst to take the 3.6 DI VVT and throw as much technology, R&D, testing, testing, and more testing at it as they've ever done with any of their engines. Lighten the weight while adding strength and durability. Harmonically ballance the cams and crank. Just when you think you've tapped all the power you can out of it, lock the engineers into a room untill they figure out more power, increased efficiency, and without loosing durability. Test the engines for hours, days, weeks for precision and wear and tear, and then go back, tear them all down, and find the parts that wear the most and improve their design.

I would really like to see GM take this opportunity to become an ENGINE company who happens to make great cars. That is what BMW and Honda are in reality. Howie Long pokes a little jab at Honda in one of the Chevy commericals that GM can't compete with their lawn mowers..... well GM, this is a perfect opportunity for you to show Honda you can make a better lawnmower than they can.

[Beandip2811]

Originally Posted by flht99b

Frankly so far all I hear from Lutz, Henderson, GM dealers and whoever is lip service about the new GM and their focus on quality and customer satisfaction. Quality is as bad now as ever has been. Go take a lap around a GM dealer and look closely at the cars. So far I am waiting 4 + weeks for correct RS dark tint taillights ( 3 improper ones installed at factory ) as well as driver side rocker panel and associated hardware, scuff guards, etc. I also own an '06 DTS performance sedan that has spent far to much time at the dealership for warranty repairs ( car has only 15K miles on it and is driven exclusively by my wife ). If anyone at GM is listening, you are failing already. I just received my "GM customer purchase and delivery satisfaction survey" for my Camaro. It won't be pretty.

I can understand your anger with the way your camaro came with the wrong taillights but please before you fill out the "Purchase and Delivery Servey" just try to remember it was not your dealer that built the car and they didn't force you to buy it, i hope, but save your anger for the quality and dependablity survey that you will get from JD Power and Associates. I just hope that the dealer you bought it from is doing the right thing and standing behind the Car to get you back on the road!!!

[SS 376]

Originally Posted by FenwickHockey65

Has anyone considered the possibility that GM's holding off on the Z28 until sales die down? When everyone and their cousin has a Camaro, GM will need to start doing updates and MCEs to keep the Camaro selling, and a Z28 would fulfill that role.

That's a possibility, but I'd tend to take Lutz as his word when he says the Z/28 is effectively dead. To keep Camaro sales humming along, I expect GM would do what Chrysler has done with the Challenger and just release some new colors, stripe packages, a minor styling update, or a minor boost in HP in 2012.

The Z/28 likely would've been extremely low volume anyway, as other people have said. An enthusiast's dream for sure, but a $40,000-$50,000 Camaro, which dealers would've marked up to high hell? A Z/28 would've never stolen that many SS sales. Best case sales scenario for a Z/28 would've been what, 6,000 units? Maybe?

[Dutchman427]

I think that would deface the Z/28 if they would put a 6 in it. That was a potent car back in 68-70 until the emissions hit it hard in 71-72. GM has already defaced the SS these past years by putting it on everthing from Malibu's to HHRs. I think if you are a true motorhead you would agree with the statement I just made. They could put a 400hp 6 in the Z/28. At the end of the day your still driving a 6 popper.

[Mohrg Beast]

Originally Posted by Supermans

Do you know how many Mustang fans were angry when the 5.0 Liter V8 was replaced by the 4.6L V8 in 1996or 97 I believe? How many years later and they are still clamoring for the 5.0's return... This is even worse if you thnk about it... The current V8 could be replaced by a supercharged V6 which may ge about 400HP but sound like a V6 while the current V6 gets replaced by a 4banger which would sound like utter crap.. I'm just glad Ford hopefully will still be making cars with engines Americans still want to buy in ten years.. I just hope the gas-guzzler tax and CAFE standards don't make it so difficult to build V8's without penalties and increased carbon offsets (fleet MPG averege vs every car must meet ?? MPG) I know where my heart is however if Ford is the only one making an affordable V8 that isn't over $40,000, then I know where I will be going to buy my next car..

i own a V6 and i love it..but i bought the 6 cause i thought it would be like latter V6s and be rare..and if this happens camaros will be as numersome as those damed 90s model cavaliers and sunfires..i would have given anything for my camaro before i got it..but im telling you guys now if they come out with the 4 and 6s and leave the 8s behind the Mustand will lose its "fat girl" badge and all the "fat chicks" will start buying them exclusivly instead of the mustang..and theyll be putting hearts and fairies and betty boop on the backglasses with fuzzy pink handcuffs on the rear view mirror. and those fred durst imitators will be taking 4 cylinders putting those damned giant god mufflers on them to make them sound "cool"..i swear to god ill sell mine and buy my tahoe back..i wont drive an assholes car..just an awesome car that an asshole can drive..grrrr to life atm.

[Restroom]

Jeez, Bob, if competing with yourself is such a bad idea, why the hell haven't you axed GMC yet? I mean at least between all the copycat passenger car lines there's at least some trim differences, the trucks are identical. A CTS-V wagon? Sure, if it'll run with the E63 AMGs. Oh, wait, people want things like nav and decent interiors, too, that'll take a decade of R&D right there. Z/28? If all it was going to be was that POS cosmetics package we barfed over last time you can keep it.

[camero]

Originally Posted by Restroom

Jeez, Bob, if competing with yourself is such a bad idea, why the hell haven't you axed GMC yet? I mean at least between all the copycat passenger car lines there's at least some trim differences, the trucks are identical. A CTS-V wagon? Sure, if it'll run with the E63 AMGs. Oh, wait, people want things like nav and decent interiors, too, that'll take a decade of R&D right there. Z/28? If all it was going to be was that POS cosmetics package we barfed over last time you can keep it.

GMC and Chevy trucks are very different looking unlike 10 or 20 years ago. Pull up some pictures. The CTS has a truly world class interior and navigation system. The Z28 will not be a cosmetics package if it's ever approved. Are you sitting on a pinecone?