*Pics* Why you should do a Solid Isolator Coupler...

[Modern07]

Al - nowhere in that does it state that the solid coupling reduces supercharger life and increases the potential for a failure - it simply talks about more noise from the timing gears as being the reason they use a spring loaded one - nothing about it giving the supercharger increased longevity.

In fact if the supercharger longevity was in fact reduced by switching to a solid isolator then do you not think the engineer would have stated as such when discussing why they used a spring loaded one? It would be a pretty big reason to give to back up their decision...

He makes no mention of that at all though - he says that using the spring loaded version does not compromise supercharger life and that is all, nothing about it actually extending longevity over the solid version.

He states that the main reason for the spring loaded isolator is to quieten noise at idle in the cabin, and states that changing to a solid has warranty implications - which it does - but those that change to it have lost warranty already so that's a non-issue.

So it seems the engineers reason for using the spring loaded version is noise related - but the reason everybody is switching to a solid is to get rid of a noise that it creates...

[white ZL1]

The thing that I still have a hard time with is if the factory isolator is performing it's job as required then why is GM replacing the entire supercharger assembly here and there?
If something's right, you don't replace/fix it.

Maybe I need to spend a little more time on some of the V boards and see if anyone has ever noticed any kind of gear rattle once they're gone with the solid isolator.

[Brownster]

If I was going to lose my warranty due to a pulley swap I would keep the spring type because you would be putting even more stress on the expensive blower.
Has the blower been tested for higher more stressful speeds?
My 02.

[Whos_Drivin]

Originally Posted by white 2SS/RS

The thing that I still have a hard time with is if the factory isolator is performing it's job as required then why is GM replacing the entire supercharger assembly here and there?
If something's right, you don't replace/fix it.

Maybe I need to spend a little more time on some of the V boards and see if anyone has ever noticed any kind of gear rattle once they're gone with the solid isolator.

For the same reason they replace the entire exhaust and not just the mufflers when the packing comes out.

[LS1 Fun]

Sooooo, what I got from reading this thread is that the coupler is only replaced because of the rattling noise at idle. There has been no other evidence brought forward that proves the solid coupler actually is needed when increasing HP. I would like to hear from someone who has added an upper pulley and kept the stock coupler in place. The solid coupler seems like it is purely an upsell, unless someone can prove that it is actually needed for some reason or another.

[white ZL1]

Originally Posted by Whos_Drivin

For the same reason they replace the entire exhaust and not just the mufflers when the packing comes out.

Not the same thing.
My point is that GM says it's fine and it's working as designed, yet they're agreeing to replace some of them.

[OldScoolCamaro]

Originally Posted by LS1 Fun

Sooooo, what I got from reading this thread is that the coupler is only replaced because of the rattling noise at idle. There has been no other evidence brought forward that proves the solid coupler actually is needed when increasing HP. I would like to hear from someone who has added an upper pulley and kept the stock coupler in place. The solid coupler seems like it is purely an upsell, unless someone can prove that it is actually needed for some reason or another.

...and thats all there is to say about the issue< highlighted in red> , nothing else. There is nothing to be gained otherwise. Bank. Thanks for posting on Camaro 5!

[Modern07]

Originally Posted by Brownster

If I was going to lose my warranty due to a pulley swap I would keep the spring type because you would be putting even more stress on the expensive blower.
Has the blower been tested for higher more stressful speeds?
My 02.

Does the solid coupler really put that much more stress on the blower though? If that is the case, then why do Ford use the solid coupler on the GT500? And why don't the GM engineers reference that as the reason they use the Spring Loaded version?

Also, would there not have been a case of a supercharger failure from a solid coupler from all of the people that have been swapping to them since the rattle issue first came to light in 2009?

I've seen a few people in this thread say the the solid coupler puts more stress on the blower, but nobody can actually back that up with any proof.

That's all I'm looking for - proof.

Otherwise it's just a bunch of opinions none of which are any better than the next, mine included.

[Modern07]

Originally Posted by LS1 Fun

Sooooo, what I got from reading this thread is that the coupler is only replaced because of the rattling noise at idle. There has been no other evidence brought forward that proves the solid coupler actually is needed when increasing HP. I would like to hear from someone who has added an upper pulley and kept the stock coupler in place. The solid coupler seems like it is purely an upsell, unless someone can prove that it is actually needed for some reason or another.

Yes it is replaced because of the rattling noise at idle.

I don't see it as an upsell though if it gets rid of that noise....surely paying $60 to get rid of that noise is a worthwhile investment?

Lets not forget that if your car is under warranty and you take it back to GM complaining about this rattle they will replace the ENTIRE supercharger. So that tells you something about how annoying that noise is.

If your car is NOT under warranty however, then it would seem logical to pay $60 to get rid of this issue when you change pulleys - we're not talking about much money here....we're talking $60 - one tank of Gas.

I'm amazed this subject has generated this much interest....but it has been fun along the way!

[OldScoolCamaro]

Originally Posted by Modern07

Does the solid coupler really put that much more stress on the blower though? If that is the case, then why do Ford use the solid coupler on the GT500? And why don't the GM engineers reference that as the reason they use the Spring Loaded version?

Also, would there not have been a case of a supercharger failure from a solid coupler from all of the people that have been swapping to them since the rattle issue first came to light in 2009?

I've seen a few people in this thread say the the solid coupler puts more stress on the blower, but nobody can actually back that up with any proof.

That's all I'm looking for - proof.

Otherwise it's just a bunch of opinions none of which are any better than the next, mine included.

...go to the Caddy board, ask the CTS-V boys, they have been dealing with this for much longer than us if you want better insight.

[Modern07]

Originally Posted by OldScoolCamaro

...go to the Caddy board, ask the CTS-V boys, they have been dealing with this for much longer than us if you want better insight.

I have been - Tons of people complaining about the rattle noise, all of which changed to the solid coupling and have been happy since.

I did not find one single person who regretted changing to the solid coupler.

That's why I am surprised this thread prompted so much debate

[Brownster]

Originally Posted by Modern07

Does the solid coupler really put that much more stress on the blower though? If that is the case, then why do Ford use the solid coupler on the GT500? And why don't the GM engineers reference that as the reason they use the Spring Loaded version?

Also, would there not have been a case of a supercharger failure from a solid coupler from all of the people that have been swapping to them since the rattle issue first came to light in 2009?

I've seen a few people in this thread say the the solid coupler puts more stress on the blower, but nobody can actually back that up with any proof.

That's all I'm looking for - proof.

Otherwise it's just a bunch of opinions none of which are any better than the next, mine included.

I am not an engineer but common sense tells me that a coupler with give would relate to reduced stress downstream.

Is the Ford blower the same as the ZL1's?

Perhaps GM engineers didn't feel the need to reference that as a reason.

You may be right,it might not matter.

Maybe someone with a blower failure can weigh in.

[silverds]

Originally Posted by Modern07

Now it is your turn to bring your facts to the table - I've heard enough of your opinion - now all I'm interested in are facts - and by facts I mean examples of superchargers that have failed as a direct result of changing to this solid coupler.

If you can bring that to the table then you are in business - and given that there are hundreds upon hundreds of people that have been using this coupler since 2009, along with many manufacturers such as ford using the solid coupler from the factory (GT500) then surely if your opinion is correct then finding just ONE example should not be too difficult.

I shall await your facts eagerly.

You are too funny. Here...Read up. Lot's of good information

If you don't think torsional vibration in machinery is a problem, maybe these will enlighten you.

Torsional Vibration overview

Torsional Vibration in Reciprocating and Rotating Machines

Torsional output of Piston Engines

Practical Design against Torsional Vibration

Smoothing the Stresses of Torsional Vibration

If you don't think EATON has performed extensive research and testing on the spring coupler. Read on and educate yourself.

Eaton Analysis results on the Contact, Stress and Life of a Supercharger Spring


I'd say after reading all I have about the effects of torsional vibration. I'd rather hear my coupler whistle "Dixie" than my rotor timing gears "clashing"

Here is an excerpt from EATON's patent on the torsion damper

Torsion damping mechanism for a supercharger
US 8042526 B2
During non-supercharging, low engine speed or idle speed operation, the meshed teeth of the blower timing gears may be substantially unloaded and may bounce or clash back and forth against each other through the backlash therebetween. The bounce or clash may produce an objectionable noise known as gear rattle and is believed to be caused by torsionals in the supercharger drive torque provided by periodic combustion engines such as engine 10. The resilient drive provided by torsion damping assembly 52 may reduce the rattle noise below the audible range.

[Modern07]

Originally Posted by silverds

You are too funny. Here...Read up. Lot's of good information

If you don't think torsional vibration in machinery is a problem, maybe these will enlighten you.

Torsional Vibration overview

Torsional Vibration in Reciprocating and Rotating Machines

Torsional output of Piston Engines

Practical Design against Torsional Vibration

Smoothing the Stresses of Torsional Vibration

If you don't think EATON has performed extensive research and testing on the spring coupler. Read on and educate yourself.

Eaton Analysis results on the Contact, Stress and Life of a Supercharger Spring

NONE of those look like documented cases of a supercharger failure caused by using the solid coupler ....So I'll continue to wait for your proof that using a solid coupler on the LSA Supercharger will cause a problem down the line.

You have 4 years of people using them just on the LSA engine alone.....so if you're correct then why are you struggling to find a single documented case?

Don't worry though I have plenty of time so I'll let you keep searching whilst I just wait here