Z/28 MSRP ABOVE 70K

[2cnd chance]

Originally Posted by Fraxum

Great point. How about this guess: Z/28 $60K + $40K ADM = $100K. There it is.

Also if there are only 1,500 Z/28s for 3,000+ dealers how would they allocate that? First order first served with one allocation each?

That guess (or close to it) is what I'm thinking hence my move away from the Z/28.

[Mister Will]

Originally Posted by 2cnd chance

That guess (or close to it) is what I'm thinking hence my move away from the Z/28.

It wouldn't surprise me. I walked into a Ford dealership with a then newely released GT500. The MSRP was about $37,000. But the dealer adjusted price was $70,000. I'm expecting they (dealers) will do the same with the Z/28.

[backtotintops]

Originally Posted by Zfatuated

I would not be surprised at all if the Z/28 turns a faster lap time at a given track than a new 'Vette.

Them's the facts, like them or not. The current 'Vette, and next years Z/28 offer the best out of the box

Thanks zfat! This is what I believe too and you wrote it very succinctly.

I'm now sure it will have the "fastest" EVER lap time for a GM production car…I can't tell you why though…until the zo7 or next zr1 has the same goodies.

Is "next years z/28" a z/28 like this version just ordered a year later without all the dealer markup? Or do you mean a gen6 version of the z/28? If the later, isn't that more likely a few years in to the new model so likely 3+ years out?

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by Fraxum

Off topic, but you Z/28 faithful are so all in on the Z/28 and your dedication over time does not waiver. Respect.

If I formed a team some where for some reason, I hope you all would be on it!

I also hope some of you get a Z/28 and join the Temp Tag Racing Team.

One thing bothers me though, I have been in the software game for many years. One of the guiding principles of successful software is to smartly undersell and over deliver. This could also apply to the car business. Chevy did a good job selling the ZL1 and 1LE. Pretty much nailed both cars before they delivered any. But the Z/28 hype is over the top. I hope the Z/28 can live up to it. I am not sure how much of the hype is directly from Chevy or the Internet fanning the flames.

If there are only 1,500 Z/28s in 2014 I do not think GM will have any trouble moving them in the 60-80K range. But over $80k the car better exceed it's hype. This is a different buyer. Here there are some well heeled out of the box thinkers who could/might be early adopters based purely on the cars performance. But exclusivity and history are not on Chevy's side at this level of the game. Sort of like Hyundai trying to break into the high end luxury market, even with good product. Looking forward to next year.

One other thought, if the Z/28 is indeed $100K how much will the ADM be?

I would say all of the hype for the Z/28 is coming from the internet and the enthusiast. just look at the ring lap time guess thread.

[MEDISIN]

Originally Posted by Zfatuated

Dude- I just made the time and effort to support the case for a $100k Z/28. Previous model 'Vette needed a lot of money invested in aftermarket bits to make it a compelling HPDE car, the new 'Vette looks to be good out of the box.

Russo- so we all are crystal clear on your perspective, what exactly is your personal left seat experience on a track?

Track experience? Hey, someone's got to stack those tires by the wall and keep the grass trimmed.

[MEDISIN]

Originally Posted by Bhobbs

GM oversold the ZL1 before it was released. They said it would beat any GT500 yet it handily got its ass kicked by the next GT500 in the 1/4 mile. I think GM learned its lesson from that and hopefully isn't over hyping the Z/28.

I don't recall any such statements from GM regarding the 1320'. They said it would be a more well-rounded performance car. And they were right.

[2cnd chance]

Best any GT500 yes, until the 662 HP model showed up...later.

[mkorgan]

Originally Posted by Bhobbs

GM oversold the ZL1 before it was released. They said it would beat any GT500 yet it handily got its ass kicked by the next GT500 in the 1/4 mile. I think GM learned its lesson from that and hopefully isn't over hyping the Z/28.

Could not disagree more IMHO. If my memory serves me correctly, the ZL1 came out before the current GT500 so the GT500 was in response to the ZL1. If I am wrong, I am wrong but that is how I remembered it.

I studied everything available about the ZL1 before I bought it, everything that was said, and a lot of things that were never said and I believe the ZL1 is exactly what it was marketed to be and exactly what I expected it to be when I bought it.

If the Z/28 is as accurately portrayed and the ZL1 was, we are all in for a treat.

[Zfatuated]

Originally Posted by 2cnd chance

That guess (or close to it) is what I'm thinking hence my move away from the Z/28.

The new 'Vette is a beast, I fell in love as soon as I saw the pics and read the specs. For everything they offer, they are dirt cheap compared to the alternatives. I'll be a shopper later on when the hi-po versions are released.

Here is a new shootout between "Vette and Viper! Woo-hoo!

http://www.edmunds.com/chevrolet/cor...ison-test.html

Originally Posted by backtotintops

Is "next years z/28" a z/28 like this version just ordered a year later without all the dealer markup? Or do you mean a gen6 version of the z/28? If the later, isn't that more likely a few years in to the new model so likely 3+ years out?

The new/current/soon to be released in 1st Q '14 Z/28. I worded that poorly.

Originally Posted by shaffe

I would say all of the hype for the Z/28 is coming from the internet and the enthusiast. just look at the ring lap time guess thread.

Agreed, GM simply released the spec and then the interwebz went nutty. They've made no performance claims I am aware of. Even HP/TQ are still unknown. Quote was "over 500hp".

Originally Posted by MEDISIN

Track experience? Hey, someone's got to stack those tires by the wall and keep the grass trimmed.

And I've got full respect for those that work hard to keep the tracks in good condition. I have an excellent rapport with my local track workers. But their judgement of value is likely very different than mine. In all seriousness, I got your dig there...haha.

Look, I've personally built up some really interesting cars and then thrashed them on track to the breaking point (and to the braking point, lol) over the years. Reading the crap from the boys living at home with mom just gets tiresome after a while. If you're a tracker, you know what it costs to build a quick and durable car, and how much it costs in consumables to run it regularly. If you've not had that experience, then you are basing some spew on your dream world.

These posters coming here, oh it's worth blah blah blah...and GM owes us a cheap car! We're entitled! Blah blah blah...

More of you guys should really invest in a great high performance driving school and then go do some track days. It's flippin' insane fun and will give you an entirely new perspective on cars like the Z/28 that you cannot gain otherwise. Do it today!

Cheers!

[2cnd chance]

Originally Posted by mkorgan

Could not disagree more IMHO. If my memory serves me correctly, the ZL1 came out before the current GT500 so the GT500 was in response to the ZL1. If I am wrong, I am wrong but that is how I remembered it.

I studied everything available about the ZL1 before I bought it, everything that was said, and a lot of things that were never said and I believe the ZL1 is exactly what it was marketed to be and exactly what I expected it to be when I bought it.

If the Z/28 is as accurately portrayed and the ZL1 was, we are all in for a treat.

Well said.

[Col. Brain]

Originally Posted by Zfatuated

Yeah, and then he talks about a Mercedes Black as a "track car for the street". Lol...a Black is a fine GT street car, but not something that will hold up for HPDE. Speaking from experience not speculation.

In regards to $100k for a new Z/28, there is not a snowballs chance that will happen. Definitely a "my dealer is ordering my car in two weeks!" type story :-) But let's play with that thought for a minute? A used .2 GT3 is around $100k, a used .1 GT3RS is $90k'ish. A BOSS 302S, if you can locate one is $80-90k'ish. A GT-R used is $80k, new $95k. There is nothing street legal Ford or Chrysler (Late edit- on second thought - Viper! How I did I overlook that?) makes that is worth comparing. There is nothing else street legal, import or domestic, close or lower in (guesstimated) price that offers the performance and durability to run (DE/HPDE/TT/PDX) lap after lap like the Z/28 will. I'm talking apples to apples, cars as they come off the showroom floor.

The Z/28 will spank the Porsche and 302S on lap times, there is no doubt about that. The 302S suspension and brakes are stone-age. The Porsche per hour running costs are astronomical. GT-R will be close on lap times to a Z/28 but anyone who is not a poseur knows a tracked GT-R goes into limp mode due to overheating after just a handful of laps- then you pull in and let it cool down for an hour.

So, a case could be made, in regards to the overall value proposition, that a Z/28 would be easily worth $100k because its competition (raw performance) is priced at $140k-250k. 991 GT3, McLaren MP4-12C (mushy brakes!), 458. No Lambos- terrible track cars, heavy and the brakes go away.

Figure $150k worth of performance, visceral 427 V8 goodness, minus $50k for dog-house interior (who needs a leather interior for a track car? seriously?), and voila' you have the case for a $100k Z/28.

Only other car close in value is a new Corvette and that is a totally different value proposition. And I would not be surprised at all if the Z/28 turns a faster lap time at a given track than a new 'Vette.

Them's the facts, like them or not. The current 'Vette, and next years Z/28 offer the best out of the box value proposition for trackers of anything else currently available out there right now. If you think $60k is expensive for what the Z/28 will offer, you are living in an alternate reality.

Coming from a guy who runs SCCA Time Trials in his street cars for years and who would never have considered in a million years to buy a Chevy for tracking. Things change.

And people thought I was silly for trying to bring the COPO in for comparison sake.

The Z07 Corvette was what 90+

I agree - and now with a limited number of 1500 I can see Z28s going easily for 90+ at dealers.

Oh well.

[1977and2010]

Originally Posted by Zfatuated

The new 'Vette is a beast, I fell in love as soon as I saw the pics and read the specs. For everything they offer, they are dirt cheap compared to the alternatives. I'll be a shopper later on when the hi-po versions are released.

Here is a new shootout between "Vette and Viper! Woo-hoo!

http://www.edmunds.com/chevrolet/cor...ison-test.html



The new/current/soon to be released in 1st Q '14 Z/28. I worded that poorly.



Agreed, GM simply released the spec and then the interwebz went nutty. They've made no performance claims I am aware of. Even HP/TQ are still unknown. Quote was "over 500hp".



And I've got full respect for those that work hard to keep the tracks in good condition. I have an excellent rapport with my local track workers. But their judgement of value is likely very different than mine. In all seriousness, I got your dig there...haha.

Look, I've personally build up some really interesting cars and then thrashed them on track to the breaking point (and to the braking point, lol) over the years. Reading the crap from the boys living at home with mom just gets tiresome after a while. If you're a tracker, you know what it costs to build a quick and durable car, and how much it costs in consumables to run it regularly. If you've not had that experience, then you are basing some spew on your dream world.

These posters coming here, oh it's worth blah blah blah...and GM owes us a cheap car! We're entitled! Blah blah blah...

More of you guys should really invest in a great high performance driving school and then go do some track days. It's flippin' insane fun and will give you an entirely new perspective on cars like the Z/28 that you cannot gain otherwise. Do it today!

Cheers!

While I agree with some if your points, some I don't. I have built my car into a pretty good track day car. I have spent faaar less than $100k. I've probably got $50-55k into my car, and thats with all aftermarket parts. When you compare it some of those high end cars I get what you're saying and see the value proposition compared to those cars. Which IMHO are grossly overpriced. Now the Z28 will come with some really nice go fast parts but they are not coming separately. "Regular" SS parts are replaced with Z28 parts.

I get the COPO cars being $100k they are shipped to a seperate facilty and cut, welded, and fabricated into drag strip terrors. I don't think this will be the case with the Z28s.

[LOWDOWN]

Originally Posted by Fraxum

A) Chevy did a good job selling the ZL1 and 1LE. Pretty much nailed both cars before they delivered any. But the Z/28 hype is over the top. I hope the Z/28 can live up to it. I am not sure how much of the hype is directly from Chevy or the Internet fanning the flames.

B) If there are only 1,500 Z/28s in 2014-15 I do not think GM will have any trouble moving them in the 60-80K range. But over $80k the car better exceed it's hype. This is a different buyer. Here there are some well heeled out of the box thinkers who could/might be early adopters based purely on the cars performance. But exclusivity and history are not on Chevy's side at this level of the game.

A) Far be it from me (!!) to want to stifle exchanges, here, BUT...all this chatter about $60-70-80-100 + ADMs is doing us NO favors! For every person prepared to pay "whatever it takes!", there's butt-hurt folks because there'll only be "1500" and therefore the price will be greater because of the developments costs, fully covered, drive up the price from the ol' Pedders thread rationale of "$50-ish". FACT is, the car is gonna cost what GM sez it's gonna cost...and we won't know that until late in the 4th 1/4.

As far as performance numbers, those will be known by price announcement and order announcement, and then folks can make an edge-a-macated decision...and all the available units will be spoken for, in short order. Regardless of what we say/do, here....

Something you CAN bet on is: Rick Hendrick will buy Production #1 @ B-J Scottsdale in January (he's probably already picked his color). And he'll be the ONLY guy that wants to cut a check for THAT much money...

And we'll see ours in April (and after), just ahead of the launch of the next-Gen Mustang on 4/17/14...

In the meantime, what we're discussing, here, and about $4 will buy you some kind of Starbucks coffee...

B) 1500 427-engined, canyon-carving Z/28s will be spoken for, mighty quickly. Period. "New York minute" comes to mind...

Believe it or not, with CAFE '16 rearing its ugly puss, this is the equivalent of 1969 intro, right about now...ONE more Model Year ('15) to go before the "new order" sets in... Get your kicks, while you can. 7.0L V8s will be GONE, baby, GONE...

Speaking of which, and encompassing "exclusivity and history", I'll run some '69ish alpha-numerics by y'all: L88, ZL1, COPO 9560 and 9561, LS6, Cross Ram (no numeric), JL8, M22. Breathin' hard, yet? Should be...and your wallet surely would be, too...

[2cnd chance]

That 1LE is looking really good!