Detroit Speed vs. Pedders

[Steve1968LS2]

Originally Posted by TeddyP25

So Detroit Speed put Pedders on this car?
http://www.detroitspeed.com/projectp...amaro-main.htm

No.. why would DSE put Pedders on thier car????

We will be testing the DSE stuff soon.. will let you know how it does.

[LSxJunkie]

A major bone the GTO crowd had to pick with Pedders is that they refuse to release spring rates. I have a full Track II on my car and the 0 drop springs are too soft for the shocks and struts that come with them. I'm tempted to change to a stiffer King Spring setup. They will give you a million different reasons they don't release their spring rates, and they will tell you to just go out and drive a Pedderized car, but that doesn't change the fact that many people know their own way around suspensions and don't like being treated like they don't.

HOWEVER...Pedders dealers are some of the best aftermarket guys in the US. They stand behind their product 100% and are usually extremely accessible. So much so that they get bogged down helping out customers sometimes that it takes them a bit to get back to you.

My Pedderized GTO is a great street car. Handles pretty nice and I can drive it through Manhatten with girls in it and they don't think it's too harsh. Manhatten has AWFUL roads. I just personally wish it was stiffer. They also sell an even more street oriented setup with softer shocks that still provide better control than stock. I'm sure they'll have something for you.

That is my experience with Pedders. They also have a leg up on the competition because they've been working on VE (Camaro) suspension since 06, when the VE Commodore came out.

Detroit Speed and Engineering's competence should speak for itself. They design some of the most badass Pro-Touring cars I've EVER seen. If I were building the Pro-Touring 69 Z/28 clone I've built a thousand times over in my head, they would most certainly have my business.

Either way you can't go wrong, and it's up to you to decide exactly what you're looking for and see which of them meets your needs more.

[usmcjlp]

LSXJunkie, thanks that's exactly what I was looking for. Having done suspension work with Jeeps, I know that when you first install a suspension it feels like a dramatic improvement. But like with anything, after you have it a while you begin to see things you would change. Just a part of modding.

How have the bushings held up over time? Have you had any suspension noise develop over time?

[Rob@WretchedMS]

Originally Posted by LSxJunkie

I have a full Track II on my car

how many miles do you have on the suspension?

[usmcjlp]

Rob@WretchedMS,

Can you explain the specific bushings that pedders recommends switching? My concern is that changing to much stiffer bushings will result in a lot more stiffness that will create rattles over time. I understand the stock bushings are tuned specifically to dampen certain problem frequency ranges. How does pedders compensate?

[Rob@WretchedMS]

I'm sure that Mike and Pete will be a bit more informative that I can be on that.

What i can tell you is that nearly all Pedders parts are designed to be on a car that gets driven every day. I drive mt fully Pedderized GTO every day, and my wife drives her fully Pedderized SRT8 every day. Both cars are very well mannered on the road, and do very well at the track.

My GTO has 65k on it, and i've had the suspension on for 45k, i have 2 rattles in the GTO, both started after pushing the car VERY hard at the track, neither of them is enough to warrant finding, as they are very infrequent, and not really noticeable.

The SRT8 has about 30k on it, and 20k of it on the suspension, it's dead quiet (except for her crap that hangs from the mirror, but that's another discussion) there are zero rattles or noises in her car.

Our bushings are not the hardest bushings you can put on a car, that's not the Pedders way of doing things. I can also tell you that the testing that they do is just insane, they have thrown out parts that didn't meet what they considered a finished product.

one last thing, I am a Pedders dealer because i was a customer, that was blown away by what they did for my GTO. I used the typical things on my 3rd gen Camaro, ES Bushings, Hotchkis, Koni, ect, a bunch of different manufacturers all very good in their own right, but not what i felt was 'as good as it could be' when you put it all together. Pedders is the only company that I've ever dealt with that has a complete package, and does all of their own R&D.

USMC i see, I was born at Cherry Point when my Father was stationed there.

Thank you for what you have given us!

[cliffy]

I may be in the minority but I'd rather have an aftermarket outfit with a great rep who was last to market ILO first to market when it comes to suspension and exhaust. The car is so new , I just have a hard time believing we've seen the ultimate just yet

[Info@PeddersUSA.com]

Originally Posted by usmcjlp

Rob@WretchedMS,

Can you explain the specific bushings that pedders recommends switching? My concern is that changing to much stiffer bushings will result in a lot more stiffness that will create rattles over time. I understand the stock bushings are tuned specifically to dampen certain problem frequency ranges. How does pedders compensate?

Unless you tried to get ahold of me today and today only, which I was unavailable due to a massive family function, I have been extremely available to the Camaro community. Every post I make has my email, and my phone.

With that said, Pedders has been working with GM racing for some time. In fact the Koni series GS Camaro will have our bushings and will be made by Riley's Technology.

On all ZETA platform vehicles, there are 3 primary bushings that need help, for sporty driving.
1. The front radius rod bushing on the Camaro is larger than the G8, but still offers a lot of unnecessary movement of the lower control arm, especially during hard braking. It is a fluid filled bushing for damping but still allows a lot of movement. This is the bushing that got us in the door with GM Racing. We will soon have a kit to supplement this bushing that will allow caster adjustability.
2. Rear cradle bushings. GM Racing understood this is a problematic bushing for handling purposes due to it allowing the rear cradle to move excessively from the body. How GM racing resolved the movement was to make a solid, non moveable delron assembly, which will wear frequently and will generate a large amount of noise and vibration. But it is a race car and who cares. The Camaro version is a larger bushing that the G8, but still subject to excessive movement, due to the rather large amount of voids in the bushing itself. Our fix is to install a bushing insert top and bottom that fills the voids. This allows the OE bushing to isolate noise and vibration, but does not allow the bushing to move.
3. Differential bushings. The only difference between the Camaro bushing and the G8 bushing is the outer jacket. The G8 outer jacket is aluminum and the Camaro is steel. The bushing, however will allow a very large amount of movement of the differential, especially at hard launches. It is not recommended to eliminate any movement due to noise and shock to the axles (we already have a dealer that shattered a rear axle on a tuned SS) but our differential bushing will offer a serious amount of control to the differential.

The above bushing upgrades is called our Street 1 package. This is a critical bushing set. We would not recommend road racing or tracking with the OE front radius rod bushing.

Now the other bushings:
1. The front lower control arm bushing from GM is a very stoutly bushing with a rather unusual shape. We are satisfied this bushing is worthy of tracking and therefore will not offer one. It is better than the G8 bushing.
2. Upper rear, rear control arm bushing is a critical bushing for serious driving. If not adjusted correctly, it can create rear bump steer. We know how to adjust it. It is the same as the G8.
3. The rear outer joints that connect the knuckle to the upper and lower control arms are quite good. they are joints and not bushings, and do not need upgrading.
4. The trailing arm and toe link bushings are the same on the Camaro as with the G8, with the exception of the trailing arm are the same. Camaro, however, use a 14mm bolt for both units. The G8 uses a combination of 12 and 14mm. so on the Camaro, we will use the same bushing on the Camaro trailing arm and toe links. Now on hard launches the Oe bushings can add to wheel hop which which is a result of unwanted movement.
5. The rear lower control arm bushing needs some firming up. It is the same bushing as the G8.
6. Rear camber and toe eccentrics. The Camaro eccentrics are a big improvement over the G8. The G8 eccentrics will allow you 2 adjustments or so for alignments. After that, the eccentric strips out due to the eccentric being made so thin. the Camaro uses a thicker eccentric that is more durable than the Camaro. However, the amount of adjustability of both the eccentrics is extremely limiting. Our Pedders Zeta rear eccentric kit is SERIOUSLY stronger than the Camaro, with a lifetime warranty (ask us for details) as well as offers a much larger adjustment range.

So that is pretty much all the bushings except sway bar D bushings, which will come with our new adjustable sway bars that we should be testing next week.


Now one final thing: GM Racing has thoroughly tested our bushings, and Xa Coil overs. They have asked us to apply for GM licensing for the Camaro. We have submitted the application, but have not heard back from them. They all happened at the time of GM ownership change as a result of the bankruptcy.
Hope this helps

mike
dms

[Z/28orSs]

Originally Posted by Rob@WretchedMS

I'm sure that Mike and Pete will be a bit more informative that I can be on that.

What i can tell you is that nearly all Pedders parts are designed to be on a car that gets driven every day. I drive mt fully Pedderized GTO every day, and my wife drives her fully Pedderized SRT8 every day. Both cars are very well mannered on the road, and do very well at the track.

My GTO has 65k on it, and i've had the suspension on for 45k, i have 2 rattles in the GTO, both started after pushing the car VERY hard at the track, neither of them is enough to warrant finding, as they are very infrequent, and not really noticeable.

The SRT8 has about 30k on it, and 20k of it on the suspension, it's dead quiet (except for her crap that hangs from the mirror, but that's another discussion) there are zero rattles or noises in her car.

Our bushings are not the hardest bushings you can put on a car, that's not the Pedders way of doing things. I can also tell you that the testing that they do is just insane, they have thrown out parts that didn't meet what they considered a finished product.

one last thing, I am a Pedders dealer because i was a customer, that was blown away by what they did for my GTO. I used the typical things on my 3rd gen Camaro, ES Bushings, Hotchkis, Koni, ect, a bunch of different manufacturers all very good in their own right, but not what i felt was 'as good as it could be' when you put it all together. Pedders is the only company that I've ever dealt with that has a complete package, and does all of their own R&D.

USMC i see, I was born at Cherry Point when my Father was stationed there.

Thank you for what you have given us!

thanks for making me a fan now lets get some R&d for my 00 ss

[LSxJunkie]

Originally Posted by Rob@WretchedMS

how many miles do you have on the suspension?

Approx 15k. Bought the car with the suspension already on it, put 8k on it since. Daily driver, all street.

Originally Posted by usmcjlp

LSXJunkie, thanks that's exactly what I was looking for. Having done suspension work with Jeeps, I know that when you first install a suspension it feels like a dramatic improvement. But like with anything, after you have it a while you begin to see things you would change. Just a part of modding.

How have the bushings held up over time? Have you had any suspension noise develop over time?

Bushings are fine thus far at I believe 15k miles. They're poly, and I've seen them last 4 times that.

[YancyJohns]

I personally have road in the DSE Test car and have one on order. If I was racing my car in compitition and wanted a fully adjustable suspension I might consider Peddler. But, as stated above; kit 1 is for looks over performance w/ the rear taller than the front, kit 2 is taller in the front than the rear w/ an European look. Furthermore, I'm not going w/ larger wheel. I'm going w/ a 20" Forgeline 3-piece wheel that will decrease the unsprung weight. As for testing, DSE is out ever weekend across the country testing their cars. Call them and get an event schedule and get a ride in one yourself and then decide vs saying they have an amazing kit and still waiting for it. Customer service, well you've answered that for yourself.

[usmcjlp]

Mike,

Thanks for taking the time to answer this thread. I appreciate getting the facts directly from the source and not second hand. I tried calling since Wednesday, only left 1 message at your number and 1 on general number line. Did you receive my email? We have a firewall that sometimes creates issues.

Will you be offering a coil only set up or just the coil overs? I'm not sure I need or can currently afford your track extreme package. If someone were to do this in stages, would you recommend and if so, how?

I appreciate the info, as it helps me budget my build. Can't do everything at once.

[Indpowr]

Originally Posted by usmcjlp

Mike,

Thanks for taking the time to answer this thread. I appreciate getting the facts directly from the source and not second hand. I tried calling since Wednesday, only left 1 message at your number and 1 on general number line. Did you receive my email? We have a firewall that sometimes creates issues.

Will you be offering a coil only set up or just the coil overs? I'm not sure I need or can currently afford your track extreme package. If someone were to do this in stages, would you recommend and if so, how?

I appreciate the info, as it helps me budget my build. Can't do everything at once.

If you look at my post a few post back you can see he has a special on just the coils/springs. Great deal as well.

[Info@PeddersUSA.com]

Originally Posted by usmcjlp

Mike,

Thanks for taking the time to answer this thread. I appreciate getting the facts directly from the source and not second hand. I tried calling since Wednesday, only left 1 message at your number and 1 on general number line. Did you receive my email? We have a firewall that sometimes creates issues.

Will you be offering a coil only set up or just the coil overs? I'm not sure I need or can currently afford your track extreme package. If someone were to do this in stages, would you recommend and if so, how?

I appreciate the info, as it helps me budget my build. Can't do everything at once.

I have 3 voicemails I have not answer yet due to a family function yesterday, but have answered all my emails and did not get one from you.

I have posted a thread with respect to our coil only drop kits. We have 1 set of coils for the back and 2 sets of different coils for the rear. the taller set was designed for those guys putting the massive big meats that we know they will have some challenges with fitment. We have pictures of the Camaro in the thread.


http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=31696

Lowered red V6 Camaro
220032 Front 667mm with 20" Wheels
220033 rear 660mm with 20" Wheels















thanks
mike
dms