2014 Camaro Z/28 pricing announced at $75,000

[gto406]

Hmmm http://www.supercars.net/Pics?viewPi...=1&pID=1019208.


Cheers,
Brian.

[GretchenGotGrowl]

Originally Posted by mkorgan

I hope none of the people ever got to a NHRA event. They will think the whole field is cheating. Since when it there a right way and wrong way to produce HP?? Not saying this is your opinion but that is about the dumbest thing I have ever heard and those that have that opinion are about as closed minded as anything I have ever heard of. They would role over and die if they saw what a NHRA team does to the engine between runs. If FI is cheating, what is rebuilding your engine from scratch between every run considered?? OH THE HUMANITY....idiots.

Giggle gas is viewed differently by those running at the road course.

[TrackClub]

Originally Posted by Norm Peterson

A ZL1 with such an uprated wheel and tire package might well be faster around many road courses . . . for the first one or two hot laps. But not over the course of a 20 minute session and definitely not on the last full hot lap before the end of the session. Think heat soak and pulled timing here, same as what the drag racers were griping about all last summer.

Yes, the ZL1's cooling could be upgraded and I guess a few other things could also be done, any of which would cut into the price difference.

The NA Z/28 will still be a more nimble car, even if the ultimate lateral grip could be made exactly equal (which I still doubt even though the Z/28 and such a ZL1 would be very close).





This ↑↑↑

Certainly the Z/28 as currently configured would not be a good DD choice for james, as he's still trying to make the Z/28 make sense in the same $ to physical content fashion that people make with any other DD.

With only a separate and more streetable set of tires, there is little reason this car couldn't be a daily-driver. Once that's done - and this is common enough within the autocross and track day world - It's the nut behind the steering wheel that's really the limiting factor.


Norm

Thx for your posts Norm - you certainly offer a lot of valuable perspectives.

I totally agree, that at then end, it is the "nut behind the wheel that's really the limiting factor". Indeed that's the biggest "mod" one can make!

But all things being equal, I still have "heart burn" dealing with Z28's price tag. After all, its engine's r+d and tooling cost have been paid off many times over during the mutli year (and very successful) C6 Z06 production run. CF brakes are extremely expensive for sure, but they are not close to being a necessity for a road racing car and personally I view them as an effective marketing and likely a high profit margin "exotic" part. Multimatic suspension is interesting, yet comparing its capabilities vs the best of what GM has to offer from its own parts bin (some of which is being licenced to Ferrari as I understand?) would surely be a scientific challenge to translate into lap times (albeit I am sure GM has a good idea). Unsure how it compares cost wise, but I am not going to automatically assume it is MORE expensive as better doesn't necessarily need to be more expensive.

Bottom line, the car costs pretty much the same as a (much?) faster C6 z06 with the same motor, but 700lb les weight. For track supremacy, who on Earth would buy anything else and why? Back seat? Unlikely, if we are talking about "pure", "attack" track cars.

So it must be the badge then, as even the very track capable Z51 is priced at almost 20Gs less. Too bad there are no direct comparos between it and the z28 yet. It will be interesting how the new Z06 gets priced and how the z28 places in the performance per dollar line up. Clearly we won't know it until more tests and comparos are done at various tracks. It will be fun to observe for sure, especially given there is some new competition (some of it already here, like the GTR and some just around the corner).

[Norm Peterson]

Originally Posted by mkorgan

I hope none of the people ever got to a NHRA event. They will think the whole field is cheating.

Been to a couple . . . and I guess it's become the normal situation since the last time I went.

Philosophically, if everybody is running the same general engine configuration it doesn't matter, but I'd sure feel like I'd been suckered if I was to line up in my NA car and discovered that the car in the other lane had some sort of power adder. Needing to use a handicap head start would take the satisfaction out of "winning", should such an unlikely event actually happen.

Since when it there a right way and wrong way to produce HP??

Believe it or not, just like there's more to motorsports than drag racing and street challenges there is more to car enthusiasm than "moar HP".

Not saying this is your opinion but that is about the dumbest thing I have ever heard and those that have that opinion are about as closed minded as anything I have ever heard of.

And for most driving purposes, forced induction on 5+ liters of V8 is a bit like using a sledge hammer to drive a tack. For a dedicated drag race car or a strip/once-in-a-while street car it's a slightly different story.

I own a car with forced induction, and yes, I still consider it to be "crutched" with its turbocharger.

They would role over and die if they saw what a NHRA team does to the engine between runs. If FI is cheating, what is rebuilding your engine from scratch between every run considered?? OH THE HUMANITY....idiots.

And you call me closed-minded?

Of course I know what goes on there, and of course I know that 1000 HP per cylinder is going to use stuff up pretty quickly. And that is so far removed from street driving or any combination-use dual purpose car that it might as well be from another planet. Perhaps you might try considering 1000 total engine revolutions between rebuilds in terms of something you can drive more places than just between trees and traps.


Norm

[Angrybird 12]

Originally Posted by Bad@ssCamaro

It was in Fbodfather's post the first one.

Guess that's what I get for looking at posts on my IPhone. I sometimes miss a paragraph. My bad....

[Norm Peterson]

Originally Posted by TrackClub

But all things being equal, I still have "heart burn" dealing with Z28's price tag.

Sadly, so do lots of folks, including me. While I probably could stretch far enough to reach $75k, it would be financially foolish of me to raid my investments and inheritance deeply enough to do so. Being (newly) retired is also a factor.

Could be the badge, but I think for some of the people who will buy this car it's that a car with this overall character was even built at all. Hopefully the fortunate few will use it for what it can do rather than simply acquire it for its relative scarcity.

It appears that both Chevy and Ford are aiming a bit higher than just at each other . . . *cough* BMW *cough* Porsche *cough*. What a time we live in.


Norm

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by Bad@ssCamaro

Where are you getting this? GM's goal is to be able to keep up with the GT2's and GT3's, nothing about "blowing them away"...maybe a an older Boss302 or Challenger

Here is the quote direct from fbodfather

Originally Posted by fbodfather

and on a road course it will blow cars costing many times more to kingdom-come.

That's pretty much to the point if you ask me.

[Angrybird 12]

Originally Posted by shaffe

Here is the quote direct from fbodfather




That's pretty much to the point if you ask me.

But did he mention anything in particular by name? I am sure there will be many cars costing much more than the Z/28 it can blow away on a road course, but not all of them...

[ToolFan66]

When one figures out the difference between a Z/28 and a Z28 they will get the $75k price tag, till then they will just have to keep whinning about it....

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by Angrybird 12

But did he mention anything in particular by name? I am sure there will be many cars costing much more than the Z/28 it can blow away on a road course, but not all of them...

No he did not mention any by name, I was simply posting the comment that a few people were questioning where did some get the idea that

"they said it blow cars away costing much more"

I think there was another GM release where a higher up said Porches were traffic though.

[mkorgan]

Originally Posted by Norm Peterson

Been to a couple . . . and I guess it's become the normal situation since the last time I went.

Philosophically, if everybody is running the same general engine configuration it doesn't matter, but I'd sure feel like I'd been suckered if I was to line up in my NA car and discovered that the car in the other lane had some sort of power adder. Needing to use a handicap head start would take the satisfaction out of "winning", should such an unlikely event actually happen.


Believe it or not, just like there's more to motorsports than drag racing and street challenges there is more to car enthusiasm than "moar HP".



And for most driving purposes, forced induction on 5+ liters of V8 is a bit like using a sledge hammer to drive a tack. For a dedicated drag race car or a strip/once-in-a-while street car it's a slightly different story.

I own a car with forced induction, and yes, I still consider it to be "crutched" with its turbocharger.



And you call me closed-minded?

Of course I know what goes on there, and of course I know that 1000 HP per cylinder is going to use stuff up pretty quickly. And that is so far removed from street driving or any combination-use dual purpose car that it might as well be from another planet. Perhaps you might try considering 1000 total engine revolutions between rebuilds in terms of something you can drive more places than just between trees and traps.


Norm

I think you missed my point or I did not articulate it well enough. Let me try again. If a purist wants to stay NA for their own view of the world then GREAT, let them do that. But for a purist to say that someone who has a different way to deliver HP is unacceptable is just plane silly.

Let me use another analogy....I love fly fishing. It is an art, requires lot's of skill, and eliminates lots of other people from doing it because of the time it takes to deliver a success result. HOWEVER, I don't think someone using a spinning reel or a bait cast with extremely heavy line to catch the same fish is cheating or using a crutch. I choose to use a fly rod setup because I enjoy it. If someone else can get the same enjoyment with equal or better results...more power (pun) to them. I don't hate them or look down on them. I could have done the same thing but I CHOSE not too. N/A -vs- FI is the same darn thing and those that say THEIR view is the only correct view are closed minded by definition.

[LOWDOWN]

Originally Posted by Norm Peterson

Sadly, so do lots of folks, including me. While I probably could stretch far enough to reach $75k, it would be financially foolish of me to raid my investments and inheritance deeply enough to do so. Being (newly) retired is also a factor.

Could be the badge, but I think for some of the people who will buy this car it's that a car with this overall character was even built at all. Hopefully the fortunate few will use it for what it can do rather than simply acquire it for its relative scarcity.

It appears that both Chevy and Ford are aiming a bit higher than just at each other . . . *cough* BMW *cough* Porsche *cough*. What a time we live in.


Norm

Another well-thought-out post, Norm. Thanks, as always.

If folks would consider the following (and these are MY personal equations):

Gen-1 SS = Current SS

Gen-1 Z/28 = 1LE (for all intents and purposes - an SS that really handles, yet suitable for DD)

ZL1, today, is the Grand Turismo (in its purest sense, NOT the gamer version) Camaro the factory never built in Gen-1 in volume). Closest Gen-1 would be a double-COPO 9561 (iron block L72) with options 'way beyond what could be ordered in '69 (A/C etc.)

Gen-1 ZL1 = COPO, inspired for drag racing, although two of them could have been considered GTs with the COPO 9737 package added...

Today's Z/28 is a car that, in '69, was unheard of from a North American manufacturer. Were it offered in '69, it would have been a $10,000+ deal, starting with a double-COPO 9560/9737 car, with Halibrands or Americans on racing tires, and Konis, and special anti-sway bars and special springs out of the GM parts bin (they existed), with a side-trip to Traco (engine blueprint) and Guldstrand (suspension conversion). And $10-12,000 in '69 was a TON of money...the price of TWO loaded Big Block Corvettes...[GULP!]

[HDRDTD]

Is $75k a lot of a Camaro even a Z/28 (yes the slash is there), sure it is. But after looking at a list of things it's equiped with, etc, I can believe that it's a fair price for what you get from the factory complete with warranty ready to drive off the lot and go racing if you'd like.

It's an awsome car, and If I REALLY wanted to, I could probably afford to buy one (but I won't, my ZL1 Vert is perfect for me).

BUT.......

One item that I haven't seen anybody mention here yet are the fender flares. Yes I know why they are there, it's just that they look TOO add-on. Yes I realize that there's probably not much they can do to improve them without just going to a complete new fender, but that's just one thing (for me) that just doesn't look right.

[AZCamaroFan]

Originally Posted by LOWDOWN

Today's Z/28 is a car that, in '69, was unheard of from a North American manufacturer. Were it offered in '69, it would have been a $10,000+ deal, starting with a double-COPO 9560/9737 car, with Halibrands or Americans on racing tires, and Konis, and special anti-sway bars and special springs out of the GM parts bin (they existed), with a side-trip to Traco (engine blueprint) and Guldstrand (suspension conversion). And $10-12,000 in '69 was a TON of money...the price of TWO loaded Big Block Corvettes...[GULP!]

EXACTLY


it's kind of hard to compare option packages from the 60s to today anyway. handling wise they were decent cars, but the SS and the Z/28 were both in the .76g range. the Z/28 whether in 67 or 68 or 69 or 70 and beyond were not 'race cars on the street'