2014 Camaro Z/28 pricing announced at $75,000

[LOWDOWN]

Originally Posted by HDRDTD

One item that I haven't seen anybody mention here yet are the fender flares. Yes I know why they are there, it's just that they look TOO add-on. Yes I realize that there's probably not much they can do to improve them without just going to a complete new fender, but that's just one thing (for me) that just doesn't look right.

The flares, in my mind, serve TWO purposes:

1) Aero aid, cutting potential turbulence in the wheelwells

2) Visual enhancement - shorter tires and lowered suspension would leave a BIG opening for "itty-bitty" tires to be swallowed up... Refer to the original PEDDERS "Big Red" for visuals without the flares.

The only alternative would have been new front fenders and rear quarters, a non-starter this late in the Program...

The flares, themselves, will visually "disappear" with a dark-colored car...and be somewhat more noticeable on a lighter colors, although the initial show car in White did a pretty good job from a visual standpoint...

[LOWDOWN]

Originally Posted by AZCamaroFan

EXACTLY


it's kind of hard to compare option packages from the 60s to today anyway. handling wise they were decent cars, but the SS and the Z/28 were both in the .76g range. the Z/28 whether in 67 or 68 or 69 or 70 and beyond were not 'race cars on the street'

Too bad Penske hadn't offered an "unfair advantage" Z/28 for the street, for I think IT would be quite similar (in concept) to THIS...

Car and Driver Magazine actually built such a car...powered by the soon-to-arrive LT1 350!!... Story was carried in a Summer '69 (Woodstock era!) issue.

[Angrybird 12]

Originally Posted by LOWDOWN

The flares, in my mind, serve TWO purposes:

1) Aero aid, cutting potential turbulence in the wheelwells

2) Visual enhancement - shorter tires and lowered suspension would leave a BIG opening for "itty-bitty" tires to be swallowed up...

The only alternative would have been new front fenders and rear quarters, a non-starter this late in the Program...

The flares, themselves, will visually "disappear" with a dark-colored car...and be somewhat more noticeable on a lighter colors, although the initial show car in White did a pretty good job from a visual standpoint...

Actually I think because the tires are so wide they were needed to keep them from going outside the wheel wells, which is not allowed in most places and would really throw up debris on the side of the car then.

[TrackClub]

Originally Posted by Norm Peterson

Sadly, so do lots of folks, including me. While I probably could stretch far enough to reach $75k, it would be financially foolish of me to raid my investments and inheritance deeply enough to do so. Being (newly) retired is also a factor.

Could be the badge, but I think for some of the people who will buy this car it's that a car with this overall character was even built at all. Hopefully the fortunate few will use it for what it can do rather than simply acquire it for its relative scarcity.

It appears that both Chevy and Ford are aiming a bit higher than just at each other . . . *cough* BMW *cough* Porsche *cough*. What a time we live in.

Norm

Exciting times for sure! I think you've boiled it down nicely in the second paragraph. And frankly GM could have put an 85G price tag and some folks would still buy it (not a criticism). Where I get a disconnect is the it is being marketed as THE track ready car from the GM stable with very lofty promise of its capability vs other cars et al (ref the "kingdom-come" comment). Not even the new Vette came with such claims. Yet thus far I haven't seen performance numbers to back it up, albeit there have been only 2 so it is early days still.
I would also like to know how it stacks up against cheaper cars, like GM's own C7 Z51, as 20 grand (more or less) is quite a pile of change for me (and many others no doubt). So perhaps we sit and wait for more data to come out thru 2014, including the Vette's Ring time (which for some reason hasn't been released yet).

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by LOWDOWN

Another well-thought-out post, Norm. Thanks, as always.

If folks would consider the following (and these are MY personal equations):

Gen-1 SS = Current SS

Gen-1 Z/28 = 1LE (for all intents and purposes - an SS that really handles, yet suitable for DD)

ZL1, today, is the Grand Turismo (in its purest sense, NOT the gamer version) Camaro the factory never built in Gen-1 in volume). Closest Gen-1 would be a double-COPO 9561 (iron block L72) with options 'way beyond what could be ordered in '69 (A/C etc.)

Gen-1 ZL1 = COPO, inspired for drag racing, although two of them could have been considered GTs with the COPO 9737 package added...

Today's Z/28 is a car that, in '69, was unheard of from a North American manufacturer. Were it offered in '69, it would have been a $10,000+ deal, starting with a double-COPO 9560/9737 car, with Halibrands or Americans on racing tires, and Konis, and special anti-sway bars and special springs out of the GM parts bin (they existed), with a side-trip to Traco (engine blueprint) and Guldstrand (suspension conversion). And $10-12,000 in '69 was a TON of money...the price of TWO loaded Big Block Corvettes...[GULP!]

That's a pretty damn good way of looking how the Camaro models break down

[mlee]

Originally Posted by shaffe

That's a pretty damn good way of looking how the Camaro models break down

He tends to do that every now and then..

[Norm Peterson]

Originally Posted by mkorgan

I think you missed my point or I did not articulate it well enough. Let me try again. If a purist wants to stay NA for their own view of the world then GREAT, let them do that. But for a purist to say that someone who has a different way to deliver HP is unacceptable is just plane silly.

I think the bush we're really beating about is the difference between a drag racer and a road course driver. Or keeping it strictly within drag racing, between class racing and "run what ya brung". Maybe it's about not using ever more power to compensate for less skillful driving?

The Z/28's heritage has always been wider than just straight line acceleration, and it's a strong perception that the balance between acceleration and cornering (and other aspects) would be upset too far in the drag-race direction with the introduction of forced induction. The time finally comes around where not one but two versions of this car are available with varying degrees of road course slant, and the people for whom HP is king don't think the top-dog road course car has enough power and the features & infotainment folks want more of their favored options stuffed into it as well.

Suppose the road course guys wanted to see what driving a COPO around Watkins Glen or Laguna Seca would be like . . . and kept banging away at the idea that the COPO needs to have road course chassis tweaks at least as optional fitment if not outright as-supplied?

Let me use another analogy....I love fly fishing. It is an art, requires lot's of skill, and eliminates lots of other people from doing it because of the time it takes to deliver a success result. HOWEVER, I don't think someone using a spinning reel or a bait cast with extremely heavy line to catch the same fish is cheating or using a crutch. I choose to use a fly rod setup because I enjoy it. If someone else can get the same enjoyment with equal or better results...more power (pun) to them. I don't hate them or look down on them. I could have done the same thing but I CHOSE not too. N/A -vs- FI is the same darn thing and those that say THEIR view is the only correct view are closed minded by definition.

I understand your analogy. I can admire the skill involved with fly fishing. Hell, just successful fishing in general. Only way I'll ever catch much would probably involve wildly illegal and rather noisy methods that I'm sure you'd look down on and probably make a phone call to Fish & Game or the local Sheriff over.

But there's a little difference between being able to choose either the more exquisite approach or the brute force way of landing that fish and the question of FI or not. Once FI gets into a specific trim of Camaro, Mustang, Subaru, whatever, that kind of choice has just evaporated.


I'm not at all trying to flame you.


Norm

[AZCamaroFan]

Originally Posted by LOWDOWN

Too bad Penske hadn't offered an "unfair advantage" Z/28 for the street, for I think IT would be quite similar (in concept) to THIS...

Car and Driver Magazine actually built such a car...powered by the soon-to-arrive LT1 350!!... Story was carried in a Summer '69 (Woodstock era!) issue.

that would be an interesting read

[LOWDOWN]

Can't find it...someone has borrowed it?...but the Oct/69 issue has an iconic road trip with BIG Daddy Don Garlits and Brock Yates in a Benz 300S-6.9 Sedan, and the infamous "disappearing" (i.e. stolen) Dart GTS with 440 that was "found" street racing in Brooklyn - kickin' ass 'n takin' names...

The LT1 350-engined "Z/29" was made from an RS '69 Coupe, painted Dark Blue with Penske-inspired Yellow pinstripes and (iirc) Minilites and Polyglas GTs on all 4 corners, with JL8-borrowed 4WDB and suspension tweaks that set a very fast time @ Lime Rock (again iirc) or Watkins Glen...

Maybe the CandD library has it, online...

[AZCamaroFan]

I don't see it on there, but they do have a test from 1968 with the Z/28 vs. the mustang

[LOWDOWN]

Cross Ram Vs. Tunnel Port (the engine that made the brochure, but NOT the assembly line)

[LOWDOWN]

BTW, anyone interested in spotting me a few buck$ to put THIS in my garage?

Thanks...in advance...

http://www.mecum.com/auctions/lot_de...=FL0114-S165.1

[Hennesseyrgv]

Originally Posted by mkorgan

I think you missed my point or I did not articulate it well enough. Let me try again. If a purist wants to stay NA for their own view of the world then GREAT, let them do that. But for a purist to say that someone who has a different way to deliver HP is unacceptable is just plane silly.

Let me use another analogy....I love fly fishing. It is an art, requires lot's of skill, and eliminates lots of other people from doing it because of the time it takes to deliver a success result. HOWEVER, I don't think someone using a spinning reel or a bait cast with extremely heavy line to catch the same fish is cheating or using a crutch. I choose to use a fly rod setup because I enjoy it. If someone else can get the same enjoyment with equal or better results...more power (pun) to them. I don't hate them or look down on them. I could have done the same thing but I CHOSE not too. N/A -vs- FI is the same darn thing and those that say THEIR view is the only correct view are closed minded by definition.

i go fishing but i use a Gill Net.
If I have the opportunity and get a Z28, I will drop in a pro charger. I know people will go against this.

[Slapshot]

Originally Posted by TrackClub

Bottom line, the car costs pretty much the same as a (much?) faster C6 z06 with the same motor, but 700lb les weight. For track supremacy, who on Earth would buy anything else and why? Back seat? Unlikely, if we are talking about "pure", "attack" track cars.