06-02-2008, 02:31 PM | #57 |
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All for having rules.
And enforcing them. Consistently. Some rules are too stringent/ strict and/or have disproprtionate repurcussions... Not that this one is one of those. I have not read the agreement that he signed, it could prove that he was a blithering idiot... I also did not look into the pics t see whatever 'secrets' that the competition would be able to gleen from them. That could also prove that he was (acted) as an idiot. Without knowing the whole story, I will feel for the former employee (and family of) and I may think that there was too harsh a penalty for the situation as I understand it, from the uninformed outside. I will hope that GM does something to 'spin' this situation so as to not alienate potential customers. As mentioned in some of the previous posts about GM and there rep; about GMs reputation and 'we thought they were changing their ways'.
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99 S-10 ZR2 06 GMC Z71 - - - sold... getting ready for my Camaro 02 Z28 - - - sold :( miss it! |
06-02-2008, 03:02 PM | #58 |
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Jay, you say that if he was given a lesser punishment, word would get around and that would be sufficient. What happens when somone with seniority, say 30 years, takes pictures containing even more sensitive info? Does he get fired or told to 'take a break'? its pretty much the same situation, and if this electrician gets away with what he did, so should this other guy. But now something has happened which really hurt the company, meanwhile he did nothing different than this electrician. See the worms nest that can get opened? What if that electrician had only been working there for 14 years. Does that change the information within those pictures and what it can do to the company? If GM were to allow this electrician to stay, it would set a bad precedent for future situations
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__________________ Originally Posted by FbodFather My sister's dentist's brother's cousin's housekeeper's dog-breeder's nephew sells coffee filters to the company that provides coffee to General Motors...... ........and HE WOULD KNOW!!!!__________________ Camaro Fest sub-forum |
06-02-2008, 06:17 PM | #59 |
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Dragon, DG... you guys all make good points.... I don't disagree with what your saying... that is the thing about a healthy debate.... it brings out good points from both sides.
Its a matter of seeing things differently and having a different perspective of what you ought to think is the best move and what will serve your organization best. These perspectives change with every person's experience's in life.... like you said Dragon.... your experience in life leads you too see this situation a little different. Personally, I think the situation reflects on both the guy and GM as an organization. I'm not saying there wrong for firing him entirely.... I just think that the punishment doesn't fit the crime. Also, is it more a reflection of his doing??.... YES, FOR SURE! GM didnt ask for this to happen.... but given the situation happened.... under the pressure its interesting to see how organizaitions react and handle things... I think these decisions do reflect upon a company's image as an EMPLOYER not a SELLER. To me they could have handled things differently. Also to me it appears that people in this thread feel very strongly about RULES and REGULATIONS and what the BOOK says.... and if you break them... then thats it your gone.... I obviously don't agree from previously mentioned comments.... why? I really don't have an explanation other then that I think the rules are often wrong.... these feelings stem from my own personal life experiences. I personally believe the best managed companies are the ones that use rules and regulations as a guide and take things on individual basis.... does this create bias and unfairness sometimes.... i wont deny it.... it sure does. But with the right human capital and the 'right people' you will have a organization that works a whole lot better IMO... this av-course is debatable depending on your viewpoint. I just think the world is getting to a point where were losing the 'human' aspect to things and there are just too many rules everywhere. Nevertheless, I didn't mean to offend anyone by my comments.... just voice my viewpoint.... which Im still holding too.... As a part of my 5 years in school i had to watch a lot of human right tribunal hearings and other employee labour relations hearings... with many different situations with employees being fired and such things.... I just think from those hundreds of hearings i have seen.... every situation where the managers had high emotional intelligence and were capable of assessing a situation on an individual basis usually were the cases when employers won.... and just when rules were applied... employers always lost.
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"HEAVEN JUST COULDN'T HANDLE ALL THE NOISE" JAY |
06-02-2008, 07:04 PM | #60 | |
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06-02-2008, 07:09 PM | #61 |
East bound and down
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Let me ask you guys something: Let's say you have a roll of film or a memory card with pictures that need to be printed. You drop them off at the one hour photo joint of your choice, and later you find out that the photo tech working there made copies of some of your pictures that he found interesting? What would you expect to happen? Because I can tell you in retail, at least in the company I work for, there is ZERO tolerance for violating a customer's trust like that. It is clearly spelled out in the rules. I have SEEN people fired for it.
Now replace "roll of film" with "shot of a car that hasn't even been released yet". Do you think GM will be less strict with leaked trade information than a retailer will be with unauthorized duplication of a customer's media?
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BITCHIN' CAMARO, BITCHIN' CAMARO!
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06-02-2008, 08:25 PM | #62 | |
Banned
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06-02-2008, 09:04 PM | #63 |
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Jay, thats fine that you have a different opinion, and I don't think anyone here could be offended by it. As you say, its a matter of perspective. Odd thing is, my perspective isn't even based on my life's experience. I've had quite a few times where I was caught on the wrong side of the rules. At first I always think that "well I'm different because of this, that and the other thing" but I eventually come to the conclusion that I'm special just like everyone else. I rationalize everything that way.
Are there cases where things aren't black and white? of course there are. But this isn't one of them. If the shots never went public with only him and his family seeing them it would be a really different case. No harm would have been done by taking them, and yet the guy still violated the rules. THAT would have been a real mess.
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Note, if I've gotten any facts wrong in the above, just ignore any points I made with them
__________________ Originally Posted by FbodFather My sister's dentist's brother's cousin's housekeeper's dog-breeder's nephew sells coffee filters to the company that provides coffee to General Motors...... ........and HE WOULD KNOW!!!!__________________ Camaro Fest sub-forum |
06-02-2008, 09:26 PM | #64 |
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I feel for this guy. I wonder if we some how can get him on here to tell his sie of the story fully. Its a shame you think you are doing something nice for your family and get burned. yes he broke the rules. But I am sure he is not the first to have taken pictures of something secret for any car company. This one just got caught with his hand in the cookie jar. I dont think the bru haha is over the camaro parts but over the manufacturing processes itself.
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06-02-2008, 10:16 PM | #65 |
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OK..I have been sitting in the shadows reading with great interest about this new awesome camaro...Tag and Brantley...I , too ,am on the job in upstate NY..I just want to say that I do feel for this guy..but come on..we need to look at this guys "Culpable Mental state" at the time he took these photo's.
1...Did he "knowingly" take these pictures?..and did he know the outcome if he was caught? 2...I am sure that when he was hired he must have signed a piece of paper that explained what would happen if he did.."Violate the rules". Think about it guys..if this guy were in the military..he would be on trial for Treason...just like a Spy!...He betrayed the General and he is now paying the price...I don't go for the ..Oh it was only for my kid's Bu@llSh%t...this guy knew what he was doing and maybe he was compensated by the auto mags...who knows..ya ever seen Willie Wonka and the Chocolate Factory?? same situation..(I think..lol) that being said...I know he must be a union Member and I hope the union can save his job..but this was over the line..It would be like sneaking into FBodfathers home and taking pics of him stepping out of the shower...(can't wait for that response) anyway...god I can't wait for October...I want my new Camaro! |
06-02-2008, 11:23 PM | #66 |
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You will not see any tears being shed here. You shouldn't compromise your personal integrity no matter the reason... desire to feed the fan sites, anger with your management, bribes, etc. He/she knew that GM's manufacturing processes are proprietary and trade secrets.
I realize that we're all hungry for details, but GM has to protect their product from the prying eyes of their competition. |
06-03-2008, 12:55 AM | #67 |
SS Shotgun Ride?!??! :-)
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good points, all. thanks for a very civil and thoughtful discussion.
While I may not like that the person was fired, I have to consider the counter-point. What if I were a shareholder or CEO of the company involved? The reaction to the "crime" is left to each individual, as it should be. Either way, I know we all agree this person should not have allowed the pictures to get into the open. I'm kinda sorry I ever saw them, now. Let the debate continue. PS - GM should honor the man's retirement benefits, and should have offered a "mutually agreeable retirement." GM saves face, the man is canned. However, the "man" can still earn the benefits he has payed for for longer than some of our forum members have been alive. Just my .2c -- if I were a "gazillion-aire" I'd take up where GM left off. This is a very hard concept for some to understand. "Reward bad behavior!?!?" Well, not necessarily. It depends on the shoes you wear every day, and your capacity for "reasonable judgement." TAG, thanks for alluding to what I meant -- there is "mostly" always room for interpretation -- it's the only "human" thing to do. However, for some violators, there can be no gray area. This is a very difficult question to address. I'm glad we can still do so. Last edited by 2KZ28_For_Now; 06-03-2008 at 01:23 AM. Reason: typos |
06-03-2008, 01:41 AM | #68 |
www.Camaro5store.com
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Yep. I like the black and white areas. But, grey....grey can be verrrrry good too.
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06-03-2008, 09:45 AM | #69 | |
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As an electrician, was he working for a contractor who had different paperwork? Anyone ever buy a new car/finance it or a house? Did you READ every single word? ..... He should have. We do not know what he knew(most of us). we know that he should have known better. knowing the repercussions, I bet he would not do it again.
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99 S-10 ZR2 06 GMC Z71 - - - sold... getting ready for my Camaro 02 Z28 - - - sold :( miss it! |
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06-03-2008, 09:49 AM | #70 | |
I used to be Dragoneye...
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There are signs everywhere at the plant, I guess. There is a known plant-policy that doesn't allow Camera phones into the plant at all! I think he knew. I think he knew very well what the reprocussions would be, too. |
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