E85?

[misterhappy]

E85 will get you less MPG, But here in San Antonio E85 is as cheap as 1.29 a gallon, compared to 2.19 for 93. On top of that, you generally gain more power by running E85, like people before have said, it runs at a higher octane then 93, so cheap ass race fuel!

[402]

Testing performance of ethanol on a stock calibrated ffv is pointless..
GM simply calibrates the vehicle to run on ethanol with no effect besides the obvious mpg loss. Any power gain is marketing.
Until it's actually optimized for ethanol you will not notice a performance increase.

[Deke736]

Originally Posted by 402

Testing performance of ethanol on a stock calibrated ffv is pointless..
GM simply calibrates the vehicle to run on ethanol with no effect besides the obvious mpg loss. Any power gain is marketing.
Until it's actually optimized for ethanol you will not notice a performance increase.

I'm pretty sure everyone that has posted in this thread that has discussed their performance gains on E85 are specifically tuned for it, and has taken the necessary steps to modify the car to run ethanol. Nobody is comparing stock FFV vehicles performance on ethanol vs regular gas.

[mmarx82]

So what is the correct configuration for the Squash Fuel system for our cars? I don't know enough about it to know what I need for this part of the install.

http://www.squashperformance.com/201...ystem_p_8.html

[jessrayo]

Originally Posted by Deke736

I'm pretty sure everyone that has posted in this thread that has discussed their performance gains on E85 are specifically tuned for it, and has taken the necessary steps to modify the car to run ethanol. Nobody is comparing stock FFV vehicles performance on ethanol vs regular gas.

Based on reading all of the above posts I'm not sure your assumption is correct. Clearly the original poster is considering changing the tune but some of the responses do not look like that is the case.

The stock ZL1 is really not set-up to run E85 at full efficiency. You can run it but you will have about a 20% drop in power because there is just that much less potential energy in the fuel. If you have an octane problem you most certainly can blend E85 with other fuels to boost your octane but to the extent you use the E85 you will lose potential power in a completely stock ZL1.

When you change the tune to specifically run E85, you give the car a lot more fuel. The optimum air/fuel ratio for gasoline is around 14.7 to 1 by mass where the optimum air/fuel ratio for ethanol is around 9 to 1. This requires a bigger fuel pump and some pretty robust injectors. Since the two biggest limitations to power are usually air and temp, this allows you to make more power with alcohol, because it does not take as much air to burn it and the combustion temps are lower related to the reduced potential power in the fuel.

A good flex fuel system would be awesome for the ZL1 but this is not something you can just plug in and turn the key. If the car is not stock, the tune would have to built from scratch for your individual engine and tested at extremes of no alcohol and pure e85.

If you have a hand loader you can build a tune for e85 without having to dial in a flex fuel sensor. I could build a tune for E85 but to honest I don't think I have ever seen it for sale in Oklahoma....and that is where I live.

If you have the capacity to pump 50% more fuel per second into the engine and tune your car accordingly it will make more power on E85. Probably not going to save any money at all and in my opinion I don't see any ecological advantage... economically you will support corn growers rather than oil producers if that is important to your values.

[misterhappy]

As far as saving money on E85, i know here in Texas E85 is SIGNIFICALLY less in price, over 93 as i have said before. That being said, you will have to fill up more often and won't get as good as gas mileage, but will make more power running it. Overall the gas price will equal out to not be much different.

[Deke736]

Originally Posted by jessrayo

Based on reading all of the above posts I'm not sure your assumption is correct. Clearly the original poster is considering changing the tune but some of the responses do not look like that is the case.

The stock ZL1 is really not set-up to run E85 at full efficiency. You can run it but you will have about a 20% drop in power because there is just that much less potential energy in the fuel. If you have an octane problem you most certainly can blend E85 with other fuels to boost your octane but to the extent you use the E85 you will lose potential power in a completely stock ZL1.

When you change the tune to specifically run E85, you give the car a lot more fuel. The optimum air/fuel ratio for gasoline is around 14.7 to 1 by mass where the optimum air/fuel ratio for ethanol is around 9 to 1. This requires a bigger fuel pump and some pretty robust injectors. Since the two biggest limitations to power are usually air and temp, this allows you to make more power with alcohol, because it does not take as much air to burn it and the combustion temps are lower related to the reduced potential power in the fuel.

A good flex fuel system would be awesome for the ZL1 but this is not something you can just plug in and turn the key. If the car is not stock, the tune would have to built from scratch for your individual engine and tested at extremes of no alcohol and pure e85.

If you have a hand loader you can build a tune for e85 without having to dial in a flex fuel sensor. I could build a tune for E85 but to honest I don't think I have ever seen it for sale in Oklahoma....and that is where I live.

If you have the capacity to pump 50% more fuel per second into the engine and tune your car accordingly it will make more power on E85. Probably not going to save any money at all and in my opinion I don't see any ecological advantage... economically you will support corn growers rather than oil producers if that is important to your values.

You are correct, I missed a post when I responded. There was a post referencing a 2007 Tahoe FFV. Almost all of the other posts in this thread talk about the performance benefit of E85, which has been demonstrated is real. All the high HP LS cars in my area have done this conversion and there is a dramatic increase in power by doing this conversion. I have never met or spoken with anyone performing a FFV conversion on our cars in order to save fuel or money, which is certainly will not do in most parts of the US. It's done for power and some of the cooling effects running E85 can have on our engines. I also agree completely that pump conversion and bigger injectors are necessary when doing this conversion, so it is not as straight-forward in the Camaro as it may be in other vehicle platforms. DSX Tuning was mentioned in this thread (he is my local tuner and has worked on my car), and since he personally designed and builds the FF sensor most performance shops around the country are using to make this swap, I will trust that he knows what he is doing in this field.

As far as the rest of your post above, I assume that is directed to others because I never mentioned anything regarding pump capacity or Oklahoma or supporting oil or corn producers. While E85 is not applicable for your specific application or region of the country, your knowledge is certainly helpful to others, and for that I appreciate your input.

[jessrayo]

Originally Posted by Deke736

You are correct, I missed a post when I responded. There was a post referencing a 2007 Tahoe FFV. Almost all of the other posts in this thread talk about the performance benefit of E85, which has been demonstrated is real. All the high HP LS cars in my area have done this conversion and there is a dramatic increase in power by doing this conversion. I have never met or spoken with anyone performing a FFV conversion on our cars in order to save fuel or money, which is certainly will not do in most parts of the US. It's done for power and some of the cooling effects running E85 can have on our engines. I also agree completely that pump conversion and bigger injectors are necessary when doing this conversion, so it is not as straight-forward in the Camaro as it may be in other vehicle platforms. DSX Tuning was mentioned in this thread (he is my local tuner and has worked on my car), and since he personally designed and builds the FF sensor most performance shops around the country are using to make this swap, I will trust that he knows what he is doing in this field.

As far as the rest of your post above, I assume that is directed to others because I never mentioned anything regarding pump capacity or Oklahoma or supporting oil or corn producers. While E85 is not applicable for your specific application or region of the country, your knowledge is certainly helpful to others, and for that I appreciate your input.

Sorry, I really only directed the first paragrah toward your comment. You are right on on all the details. Just kind of summarized my general thoughts on what everyone else said in all of the rest of the posts in everything after the first paragraph.... You can make some power with E85 if you have the right fuel system. Not a bad option if it is readily available.

[MO'SZL1]

I just added e85 to my zl1 ...

https://m.facebook.com/1397215794184...pe=1&source=46

[EvilZL1]

the hybrid setup to where you can run either in the car would be key. 93 for your daily driving and E85 for when you visit the strip

[Deke736]

Originally Posted by EvilZL1

the hybrid setup to where you can run either in the car would be key. 93 for your daily driving and E85 for when you visit the strip

Exactly! DSX Tuning has a sensor designed to allow you to do just that!

[EvilZL1]

Originally Posted by Deke736

Exactly! DSX Tuning has a sensor designed to allow you to do just that!

That'll be sweet! Best of both worlds


Sent from Wayne's Manor

[revobasher]

Well guys I decided to take the plunge.

Anyone have experience with Fore Innovations dual pump setups? The shop that installed my JDP package is recommending them. They have nothing against Squash but have a relationship with Fore. I guess I am not opposed. Fore seems credible and I trust this shop.

[Redlineviper]

Originally Posted by revobasher

I got a 75hp gain on my Lancer Evo X just going to E85 and it was only a $1100 investment with tune. I am not finding switching ZL1 to corn to be as inexpensive.

If you have the 1000 injectors you should be pretty good other than tune as long as your fuel system is keeping up. I don't think you will pick the gain you got on the lancer but should see 40+ hp