ZL1 to a 1LE?

[Nor Cal ZL1]

Originally Posted by Billy10mm

Yes, but only about 4 laps. Fun car. Very different behavior on the track than my 1LE. You drive the two cars very differently. I didn't expect the difference to be as big as it was.

Thats great. Sounds like a fun day wish I could have the same oportunity.

[Nor Cal ZL1]

Originally Posted by Billy10mm

Personally, I've driven the ZL. It's an awesome vehicle. I'd never driven something as powerful as my 1LE before, so the ZL1 was monstrous. As a street car, it is phenomenal.

And I'd love to have a full-out track weekend with one. I think it would be a blast and would love to do my best Chris Harris impersonation for at least 1 full stint. But I'm barely able to digest maintaining my 1LE and I'm not doing as many track events and auto-crosses as I'd like because of the upkeep costs. A ZL1 would mean even less track time. And the extra smiles the ZL1 would put on my face as a daily-driver doesn't overcome the loss of track time.

Very cool. Personaly I think the Z is underpowered after you get used to it. Very logical and fair reasoning on your choice of ride. Enjoy your tracktime. There is never enough.

[ST1LE]

Originally Posted by 45thAnniversary2SS

Did I miss something here? How is the 1LE a better track car???

Yes. Track times not are the only thing that makes a car a great track car.

[Shark72]

Originally Posted by Shark72

This may sound strange but, has anyone traded in their ZL1 for a 1LE? I just thought that with the track focused naturally aspirated 1LE, some may prefer this setup over a mag shocks and a supercharger. Just curious!

My original question was lost in the discussion!

[gajagfan]

Originally Posted by Shark72

My original question was lost in the discussion!

There were two people......2.

[45thAnniversary2SS]

Originally Posted by ST1LE

Yes. Track times not are the only thing that makes a car a great track car.

Gotcha. Didn't know you weren't competing. I guess if you want to joy ride around the track it doesn't matter.

[gajagfan]

Originally Posted by 45thAnniversary2SS

Gotcha. Didn't know you weren't competing. I guess if you want to joy ride around the track it doesn't matter.

Thats not what he and others have meant, and you know it. I have never seen anyone so butt hurt over the 1LE package as you. We get it. You 45th guys like decals, 1LE guys like handling. Its all good! I bet your not mean to the Hot Wheels guys!

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by Shark72

This may sound strange but, has anyone traded in their ZL1 for a 1LE? I just thought that with the track focused naturally aspirated 1LE, some may prefer this setup over a mag shocks and a supercharger. Just curious!

Ooh- ooh!!!

I did!

And I do not regret it. I miss some things about the ZL1. But I am very, VERY happy with the 1LE.

[45thAnniversary2SS]

Originally Posted by gajagfan

Thats not what he and others have meant, and you know it. I have never seen anyone so butt hurt over the 1LE package as you. We get it. You 45th guys like decals, 1LE guys like handling. Its all good! I bet your not mean to the Hot Wheels guys!

Lol, no I don't know it. How does a faster lap time not equate to being a better track car?

The only ones butt hurt seems to be the 1LE guys who think somehow it is a better track car than the Z, when it's clearly not. You guys spread so much misinformation around this site.

I'm perfectly happy with my ride and accept it for what it is. I don't try to make it out to be something it's not. Besides, mine is probably faster than yours..

Carry on though...

[Fraxum]

Originally Posted by Dropspeed

Weight is flat out the enemy of any track car no matter the HP. It eats tires, heats up brakes and can remove the fun factor on track. I have seen more ZL1 front tires chewed up than any other car at the track. Car are getting heavier and heavier, but I refuse to track anything over 4000lbs and truthfully the Camaro is pushing my mental line in the sand as it sits.

I think this post sums up the big difference on a track between the 2 cars. While the same driver might be able to be faster in a ZL1 than a 1LE, he or she has to be a braver driver to do it. Even the pro drivers who wheel FI Pony Cars around a track talk about having to be brave to get the fastest times.

So is feeling out of control fun? I think the good times tracking a car relates to the drivers command of the car. Knowing where the limits are and keeping just under them is the trick for the feel good. I have the same problem but on a smaller scale. When the track can't hold my car, it's too cold or poorly prepped, I am miserable and might as well go home. But when things click and I hook, oh what a feeling.

I have 20 minute session tracked my previous SS LS3 400 RWHP Camaro with serious suspension mods (Before the 1LE existed) and it was great fun as I was getting faster all day. I am not sure taking my over 600 RWHP 1LE out there will be as much fun. For sure I would be wary of letting it all hang out even in the straights with my 1LE. I do want to try it, but it will be on a very warm day and I will go as low on boost as I can go. I would love to track more but I am too cheap to get into it. And as mentioned before my heavy 1LE (about 4,150 pounds I reckon) will chew up brakes and tires faster than the lighter 1LEs. But to be fair the relatively heavy stock 1LEs seem to do a nice job of chewing these things up already from what I read here.

Adding that weight has not changed the fun of just driving around. All the weight was added down low and spread out between the back and front. I kept the stock square tire setup and added some suspension mods. It still feels good and glued to the road. But for sure the extra weight will resist turning and I am sure if I tracked it before and now I would feel a difference.

As to spending ZL1 money on a 1LE, don’t do it. I did that and maybe more. If I trade my car in it will get wholesaled. If I sold it privately I would be lucky to get SS 1LE retail. Drag racing is more fun now. But so far with the money spent I have only improved .9 seconds. If I had it to do over again would I do it? No. I should have bought a ZL1. Ouch. Live and learn.

As to anyone thinking that ZL1 bashing is going on here I do not see it. If you are a track rat you should want a 1LE. If you want one of the best reasonably priced GT cars out there that is good for almost anything, you should want a ZL1. Even if stock ZL1 is faster on a road course with a pro driver, that does not make it more fun there. And fun is what it is all about.

[gajagfan]

Originally Posted by 45thAnniversary2SS

Lol, no I don't know it. How does a faster lap time not equate to being a better track car?

The only ones butt hurt seems to be the 1LE guys who think somehow it is a better track car than the Z, when it's clearly not. You guys spread so much misinformation around this site.

I'm perfectly happy with my ride and accept it for what it is. I don't try to make it out to be something it's not. Besides, mine is probably faster than yours..

Carry on though...

I am confident you and your car are better at everything than anyone else and their car, no doubt, so lets just move on from there. Let me help you understand what people are saying. The ZL1 cost about $20 K more than a 1LE, and the platform that it provides is a car that is over 2 seconds a lap slower than the ZL1 per the comparison you so graciously provided. Thats huge! In stock format, the ZL1 is faster than the 1LE. Can we both agree to that? I hope so. Can we also agree that it does it because of its HP superiority, because it is well documented that it does not handle as well (less G's on skid pad) than a 1LE.
Now, with the extra $20K that I have left from my purchase of the 1LE vs the ZL1, I can make modifications to gain a huge part of HP back without adding weight (cam, heads, exhaust, tune), improve the braking, and further extend the handling advantage without ADDING ANY WEIGHT.
Now I highlighted that because we are now getting into the benefits that some of these guys are hinting at. The heavier car is going to be harder on tires (big expense) and brakes (significant expense) than the lighter one. Thus, the cost to track a lighter car in the long run is going to be much less than the cost to track a heavier one.
So, to recap for you, you guy who is so much faster than me, a 1LE, for less money than the cost of a ZL1, can be made to go just about as fast, if not faster on most road courses, than a ZL1, and be much more cost effective to operate in a track environment.
Now, one would need to be concerned with the "next weakest link" on the 1LE is significant enough power were added, so there might also be some cost associated with that, and even if you match or exceed the ZL1 on the track, your modded 1LE will not ride a smooth or have some of the other gadgets that can be found on the ZL1, so it will not as nice an all around car, but its not from the start. It will however be a better track toy.
I hope I said it better, and also hope to be as fast as you someday, but am certain that will most likely never be the case.....such is life!

[45thAnniversary2SS]

Originally Posted by gajagfan

I am confident you and your car are better at everything than anyone else and their car, no doubt, so lets just move on from there. Let me help you understand what people are saying. The ZL1 cost about $20 K more than a 1LE, and the platform that it provides is a car that is over 2 seconds a lap slower than the ZL1 per the comparison you so graciously provided. Thats huge! In stock format, the ZL1 is faster than the 1LE. Can we both agree to that? I hope so. Can we also agree that it does it because of its HP superiority, because it is well documented that it does not handle as well (less G's on skid pad) than a 1LE.
Now, with the extra $20K that I have left from my purchase of the 1LE vs the ZL1, I can make modifications to gain a huge part of HP back without adding weight (cam, heads, exhaust, tune), improve the braking, and further extend the handling advantage without ADDING ANY WEIGHT.
Now I highlighted that because we are now getting into the benefits that some of these guys are hinting at. The heavier car is going to be harder on tires (big expense) and brakes (significant expense) than the lighter one. Thus, the cost to track a lighter car in the long run is going to be much less than the cost to track a heavier one.
So, to recap for you, you guy who is so much faster than me, a 1LE, for less money than the cost of a ZL1, can be made to go just about as fast, if not faster on most road courses, than a ZL1, and be much more cost effective to operate in a track environment.
Now, one would need to be concerned with the "next weakest link" on the 1LE is significant enough power were added, so there might also be some cost associated with that, and even if you match or exceed the ZL1 on the track, your modded 1LE will not ride a smooth or have some of the other gadgets that can be found on the ZL1, so it will not as nice an all around car, but its not from the start. It will however be a better track toy.
I hope I said it better, and also hope to be as fast as you someday, but am certain that will most likely never be the case.....such is life!

Done, we agree. Good day.

[gajagfan]

Originally Posted by 45thAnniversary2SS

Done, we agree. Good day.

And good day to you as well.

[Dropspeed]

I have driven a CTS-V, Boss302, Hellcat (the one from the Jalopnik video Ralph Gilles brought out) Porsche GT3, Turbo S, Caymen, Lotus (all flavors) Ferraris, Maseratis, Noble M400, Viper, all flavor Corvette, Tesla roadster and list goes on and on. All of them at speed on a road course. This will be my 18th year instructing and I held a license and raced NASA for a long period in the middle.

WITH all of that being said (felt I needed to qualify my opinion here ) I have driven both the 1LE and ZL1 back to back on a road course. The ZL1 flat out feels heavier. The 1LE turn in and rotates like a much lighter car than it is. The biggest sign that is weighs 3800lbs + is when you hit a straight and it doesn't accelerate in the fashion you want it to.

The 1LE to ZL1 is similar in mind to the Tesla Roadster to Lotus Elise. Same basic platform, but the Tesla had 911 Turbo like acceleration out of a corner compared to the NA Lotus...but the Lotus was way more enjoyable to drive. Does it mean the Tesla was slower on the track, I really can't recall, but the amount of effort it took to wheel it around the track, the Lotus was just more fun to drive.

I am not "bashing" the ZL1 as there is no doubt it can post faster lap times than a 1LE stock for stock, but I want my track car to have an inherit fun factor when I drive it. The ZL1 on track didn't do it for me......nor did the Hellcat for that matter, even with all 707hp.