New lightning lap

[Norm Peterson]

Originally Posted by BruHop

And, that being said, The 1LE Camaro was 3rd fastest in the dry on the 2nd day.

Yes, and it should have been expected that a 1LE would be right at the top.

I'm honestly surprised that any of the S550's matched his dry time, let alone top it.


Norm

[Mikamaro]

Originally Posted by Pushrod Pete

that's not comparable because the SS itself received a suspension upgrade in 2012.

The lower control arm/sway bar connecting point revision wouldn't improve lapping times on a circuit. It's to improve 0-60' acceleration by reducing the wheel hop issue. Once launch it doesn't help anymore.

I've ran my 1LE track pack a full year without the revised lower control arm, and replaced them after, verdict: it reduced wheel hop close to none but my lap times haven't improved.

[Mikamaro]

Originally Posted by White_SS/RS

I think Gajagfan fan is saying a 1le with the 285 g2 tires compared to a 1le with 255/275 Pirelli tires.

If It's the case I think Cornerspeed92 could answer this since he ran both at Fontana in 2013 with his 1LE.

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=332782

[BruHop]

Originally Posted by Norm Peterson

Yes, and it should have been expected that a 1LE would be right at the top.

I'm honestly surprised that any of the S550's matched his dry time, let alone top it.


Norm

Why would that surprise you? They were all on RE71R's either the 275 or new 285. I know 2015 Mustang guy had the 285's shaved for Nationals. I would think Mustang owners would expect their new model Mustang with more power and still slightly lighter than the 1LE to perform.better than the outgoing model 1LE. I think they are priced similar.

[Norm Peterson]

Because the S550 has less than a year's competition development in it at this point, compared to the 1LE's 3 or possibly 4. It takes time to sort out a new chassis.

Short of being horribly mis-classed, I wouldn't expect any new chassis to achieve parity in its class much before the end of the second season. Maybe by the middle of season 2 if there's a large number of top-level people running it and the base of knowledge builds quickly.


Norm

[Chris1SS1LE]

Also the big dog mustang suspension tuners been feeling the hit like anyone connected to the 79-04 mustangs. The parts sales just dried up and those guys had a lot of money tied up in those parts. Then the it took awhile to find what works and doesnt with the S197 and right win they were getting everything sorted a new chassis coming down the road. Look at the camaro side suspension shops are up and down and some never make it back.

Ford problem is they are trying to be a one world car like the focus. Same car in all the continents minus engine plants. Now they want the mustang to do the same. They keep wanting to add the soft side to make it more compliant to a higher end car. But the higher end car uses a better suspension setup that cost money. Ford wants to cheat the want economical cost effiecent, but want same outcome.

You start adding aftermarket parts for a car to equal a car that is oem stock. Then the car your trying to equal or better should upgrade for the same cost. There lies your problem, your going to be chasing 1LE tail lights.

Maybe when the $50k flat plane crank mustang is on the street built to beat a $36K 1LE then you will feel more vindicated living on Romain Noodles, why the 1LE eats at Ruth Chris.

But what if the GT350 is only as fast as a 1LE. Who is the bigger fail then, that is the mustang boys nightmare. Then GT350's will have huge mark downs. You know they can't let a GT350 be faster then the R. So you know its been mildly held back.

[Norm Peterson]

Originally Posted by Chris1SS1LE

Also the big dog mustang suspension tuners been feeling the hit like anyone connected to the 79-04 mustangs. The parts sales just dried up and those guys had a lot of money tied up in those parts. Then the it took awhile to find what works and doesnt with the S197 and right win they were getting everything sorted a new chassis coming down the road. Look at the camaro side suspension shops are up and down and some never make it back.

The aftermarket suspension business absolutely can be a tough one. Though BMR has just introduced a new (from them) S197 suspension component. You have to be big enough to be able to diversify on much shorter notice than was the case with either the long-running Fox/SN95 or to a more limited extent with the 3rd & 4th gen F-bodies.

Ford problem is they are trying to be a one world car like the focus. Same car in all the continents minus engine plants. Now they want the mustang to do the same. They keep wanting to add the soft side to make it more compliant to a higher end car. But the higher end car uses a better suspension setup that cost money. Ford wants to cheat the want economical cost effiecent, but want same outcome.

All mfrs play this game. Suspension tuning differences will probably continue (with U.S. base cars getting the softer riding versions).

You start adding aftermarket parts for a car to equal a car that is oem stock. Then the car your trying to equal or better should upgrade for the same cost. There lies your problem, your going to be chasing 1LE tail lights.

Maybe, maybe not. Don't forget that the S550 has quite a bit more room to grow with respect to wheels and tires than the 1LE . . . arguably the most significant parameters in all this.

FWIW, wheels and tires in the GT/PP's 9"-9.5" and 255-275 range are barely above an "everybody's DD" setup. Even for the S197 of 7 or 8 years ago when there wasn't anything else in the ponycar category that took any effort to match (Challenger? really?), they wouldn't have been the stuff you'd start to spec a track-focused build around. My 3-season setup (18x9.5, 255/45 max performance soon to become 265/40 max perf) is track-capable, but certainly not track-focused.

Maybe when the $50k flat plane crank mustang is on the street built to beat a $36K 1LE then you will feel more vindicated living on Romain Noodles, why the 1LE eats at Ruth Chris.

But what if the GT350 is only as fast as a 1LE. Who is the bigger fail then, that is the mustang boys nightmare. Then GT350's will have huge mark downs.

The 1LE and the non-R GT350 are both niche players, expected to sell something like a few thousand units/year. The way I see it, the GT350 is intended to trump the 1LE much like the 1LE absolutely had to top the S197 GT Track Pack cars when it came out. Time will tell if the GT350's PSS tires can hold up their end of the bargain.

You know they can't let a GT350 be faster then the R. So you know its been mildly held back.

A little like the difference between the 1LE and the Z/28, then . . .


Don't confuse me with some run-of-the-mill Blue Oval fanboy trying to provoke something. What the 1LE is, is nothing short of remarkable (and I've cribbed a thing or two from it, visible in my sig pic if you know what you're looking at). But I think the situation now is like the warning in the passenger side outside mirror. "Objects in mirror are closer than they appear".


Norm

[67Builder]

I just don't see the GT350 as a 1LE competitor. More like a ZL1 or hellcat range with the HP and weight ratio. The 1LE is just an SS with a track pack. Like a GT PP is just a GT with a track pack.
But these arguments are all moot anyway. We're comparing dissimilar model years. Fords latest is gonna be a bad mutha. And if it's a bit faster than my 1LE, good. It's supposed to be. Then we'll likely see Chevys answer in a year or two with a new 1LE based on the LT1 SS. And that should be a step up on the Ford.
In the end, I'll stick with my 1LE for now, and hope to see a 2017/18 ZL1 in the 650 horse range. C'mon Chevy! Do it!

[Baggerjack]

Originally Posted by CamaroTom

Just got my new issue of Car and Driver and was happy to see this. The 2015 stang gt ran a 3:05.2 at VIR. Look where the 2013 1LE is in comparison.

I'm happy to see the 1LE is faster than the Boss 302 Laguna Seca!

[motorhead]

What is the 1/4 mile time between the 1LE and the new GT?

[67Builder]

As tested by motor trend I think it was 12.8 for the Ford and 12.9 for the Chevy. Basically a dead heat in reality. A tenth is pretty close depending on driver skill, traction, weather. It'll be a great stock matchup for sure. But really who leaves a car used for drag racing stock.

Also who drag races a car meant for a track with turns?

[motorhead]

Originally Posted by 67Builder

As tested by motor trend I think it was 12.8 for the Ford and 12.9 for the Chevy. Basically a dead heat in reality. A tenth is pretty close depending on driver skill, traction, weather. It'll be a great stock matchup for sure. But really who leaves a car used for drag racing stock.

Also who drag races a car meant for a track with turns?

I've seen a couple 1LEs at the strip I go to. Anyhow, it seems as though the new stang isn't a huge improvement in the performance end of things.

[67Builder]

I think the GT and the GTPP aren't getting much of an upgrade. The real focus was the GT350 and the r version. I'd expect they'll punch up the GT in a year or so.

[Punk_rider]

I hear this tire thing over and over again when it comes to Mustang vs. 1LE...

I can buy the importance of tires for sure, but tires are probably the easiest thing to upgrade so why Ford didn't upgrade? Price spread wouldn't be huge... Maybe it's because tires are important but not that much.

Anyway, stock for stock the 1LE package is at least 4 seconds better than GT PP (even more actually considering the repavement).

The "hardcore" side of the 1LE package is still a funny thing to me. I'm European and seriously, there's just nothing "hardcore" in the way the 1LE drive ... always makes me laugh when I see people wonder about making it a daily driver ... I've driven regular stock BMW stiffer than my 1LE! Actually, my bro's 330 XD BMW is way stiffer than my 1LE! You americans have some very very very very very sensitive asses ... or India-like roads!

Anyway, kicking Mustang's @ss by at least 4 seconds with a car 3 years older is really satisfying. Reading m6g forums about that lightning lap is actually even more.