Why is an A6 faster than M6?

[big dave]

In the SS's, the motors are slightly different depending on your transmission choice. The manual has the ls3 engine, the auto has the l99. Because only the l99 has displacement on demand, the power is slightly lower. I think the camshaft is slightly smaller as well.

The ZL1 motors are all the same regardless which transmission you get. The losses to the rear wheels are due to the additional drag of the auto transmissions.

[2013 ZL1 #7860]

The responses in this thread are

The rated HP from GM is the SAME for both the Auto and Manual ZL1.
They both us the same LSA motor (unlike the SS which uses slightly different V8's and thus have different GM rated HP).

The "rated" GM HP is at the crank and does not include losses die to accessories and drivetrain.
A manual transmission has a Direct connection from the engine to the wheels while an Automatic transmission (traditional auto anyway) has a torque converter.
A torque converter is a Fluid Connection from the engine to the wheels and thus will always loose some power in the transfer from mechanical to fluid to mechanical again (heat).
Autos dyno a little less than Manuals do because of this power loss into heat.

But the Auto and Manual have different gearing in all gears and in the final drive. This results in different acceleration and shift points in the 1/4 mile.
Also a torque converter by design multiplies the torque the engine makes, something a clutch does not do.

Personally i picked the ZL1 because it has an Auto option and it makes ALL difference at the drag strip which is what I bought it for. Im sure a Manual is more fun to drive on the street and the road course.

Cant go wrong with either choice IMO!

[TobysZL1]

Originally Posted by 2013 ZL1 #7860

The responses in this thread are

The rated HP from GM is the SAME for both the Auto and Manual ZL1.
They both us the same LSA motor (unlike the SS which uses slightly different V8's and thus have different GM rated HP).

The "rated" GM HP is at the crank and does not include losses die to accessories and drivetrain.
A manual transmission has a Direct connection from the engine to the wheels while an Automatic transmission (traditional auto anyway) has a torque converter.
A torque converter is a Fluid Connection from the engine to the wheels and thus will always loose some power in the transfer from mechanical to fluid to mechanical again (heat).
Autos dyno a little less than Manuals do because of this power loss into heat.

But the Auto and Manual have different gearing in all gears and in the final drive. This results in different acceleration and shift points in the 1/4 mile.
Also a torque converter by design multiplies the torque the engine makes, something a clutch does not do.

Personally i picked the ZL1 because it has an Auto option and it makes ALL difference at the drag strip which is what I bought it for. Im sure a Manual is more fun to drive on the street and the road course.

Cant go wrong with either choice IMO!

Great post man!
Except the fact that the manual is not more fun to drive. I had a manual Z before my current auto Z and I consider myself an excellent manual driver. I have way more fun in my auto then I did with the manual. When you start Modding these autos there just plain sick. Straight beasts. They shift just like a manual with a good tune without doing the work, win win!

But to the O.P. your question is easily answered. Auto is always going to shift faster then any human. It's a computer, simple as that. That and all the good stuff 2013ZL1#7860 wrote about above..

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk

[Murder 1]

Originally Posted by TXsilvy

an automatic transmission is faster and more consistent than 99% of people out there...and an automatic is faster in drag style racing. I'm pretty sure the manual has an advantage in road course style racing.

Exactly. The paddles are not good if you have to go hand over hand, however Porsche and other performance manufacturers have managed to work around that since 2010. Well... Formula 1 and Indy have worked around that too.

With autos you may have what we refer to as the "torque bomb" where it may want to step out hard going 1,2 or 2,3. Mine is a little twitchy, but it makes more torque than hp like an old engine instead of more hp than torque (like it started out). I think that happened after the Pfadt headers.

Some of the old Buick GSX Stage 1 guys said flat out there would be no way they could get that 455 out of the hole with a 4 speed manual unless they were on slicks. Of course they had bias ply tires too, that's a whole different nightmare.

The electricity in the brain and computer move at the same speed, it's the foot, arm and gear syncros where it slows down. That and every time you hit the rev limiter or undershift and leave revs on the table, it is technically a mistake the computer won't make.

In fact in last years Lightning Lap at V.I.R. they said what cost the Viper the few tenths is that the revs went down every time it shifted, and it lost ground. No way to avoid that as long as there is disengagement and re-engagement.

Besides I have two tunes. One is aggressive, the other with get rubber going into 5th gear. I COULD shift it that hard I don't have a need to.

[Battlezone580]

All depends on the drivers, I know some people with automatics that just smash the gas and go up in smoke. I had a 2012 SS auto and it was alright, drove my friends manual 2013 SS and was in Love. Then bought a 2015 ZL1 manual and its awesome.

From a dig I mean the ZL1 manual trans is equip with launch control, but I think I can launch better my self.

In the end of the day its a very small difference, get what you like better. I will say manual trans is Americas best anti theft device!

[trainman]

Originally Posted by leggettjd

I agree with your statement, but the automatic is still almost 30 HP less at the wheels than the Manual. That should still give a manual vehicle an advantage even is there is some human error...

The main advantage the automatics have over the manual transmission is in the gear ratios. While it's true the automatics absorb a little more power and thus yield less RWHP on the dyno, the difference in gear ratios gives the automatic an edge. Everyone knows you accelerate quicker in first gear than you do in say second or third gear: IE lower gears , quicker acceleration. See the overall gear ratio comparisons for the ZL1 automatic and manual trans cars below:

Automatic ..................................... Manual
Gear ratio x rear end= overall ratio ....Gear ratio x rear end= overall ratio
1st ..4.03 x 3.23= 13.02....................1st...2.66 x 3.73 = 9.92
2nd..2.36 x 3.23= 7.62.....................2nd...1.78x 3.73 = 6.64
3rd..1.53 x 3.23= 4.94.....................3rd...1.30x 3.73 = 4.85
4th..1.15 x 3.23= 3.71......................4th.. 1.00x 3.73 = 3.73

So you can see the automatic has a big advantage in 1st, slightly better in 2nd, very slight in 3rd and about even in 4th. That first and second gear edge is enough to win 1/4 mile races (given equal HP and traction). Less driver error too.


That said, I only drive a manual, for the fun and I have driven manuals (and raced them) since 1964....back in those days a stick shift had a huge advantage. Also I am currently in a rebuild of my CTS V 6-speed manual to even things out. RPM rebuild will include a change to 3.01 1st, 2.10 2nd and a 1.46 3rd....I think I will have a real surprise in the mid-range for my fellow automatic CTS V brothers.

[wirebender]

Originally Posted by 2013 ZL1 #7860

The responses in this thread are

The rated HP from GM is the SAME for both the Auto and Manual ZL1.
They both us the same LSA motor (unlike the SS which uses slightly different V8's and thus have different GM rated HP).

The "rated" GM HP is at the crank and does not include losses die to accessories and drivetrain.
A manual transmission has a Direct connection from the engine to the wheels while an Automatic transmission (traditional auto anyway) has a torque converter.
A torque converter is a Fluid Connection from the engine to the wheels and thus will always loose some power in the transfer from mechanical to fluid to mechanical again (heat).
Autos dyno a little less than Manuals do because of this power loss into heat.

But the Auto and Manual have different gearing in all gears and in the final drive. This results in different acceleration and shift points in the 1/4 mile.
Also a torque converter by design multiplies the torque the engine makes, something a clutch does not do.

Personally i picked the ZL1 because it has an Auto option and it makes ALL difference at the drag strip which is what I bought it for. Im sure a Manual is more fun to drive on the street and the road course.

Cant go wrong with either choice IMO!

Also we have the paddle shifters for road course use....or any time!

[hognutz]

I really think the gearing in the auto works better in the 1/4 mile. Look at the mustang people who swap away from the Mt-82 to a tremec and lose that 4.0 first gear they usually lose ET and have to swap rear gear to get it back or add more power not to need it.


I have always felt though launching an automatic allows you to sneak up on that traction threshold a bit easier than a manual as well. back in the PG, th350, th400 days though you had to shift automatics manualy to be competitive. in the computer controlled world though you don't.

[Balasarius]

Originally Posted by leggettjd

I believe that I found the answer to my question concerning the SS
http://www.ehow.com/info_8762452_dif...e-l99-ls3.html

We've moved beyond this, but...

The reason the auto SS has the L99 with cylinder deactivation is because it allows it to eek out 1 more MPG verses the LS3 engine with an auto. An LS3 engine with an auto would push the Camaro SS into gas guzzler territory and force a gas guzzler charge on the sticker. GM was rightly concerned they'd get crushed by Ford if the auto Camaro SS had an additional gas guzzler charge that the Mustang did not.

Thus, auto Camaro SSs gets the L99 engine.

[KaBoom1701]

Yes....computers can out shift us now....

Go take a drive in a 8spd auto stingray Z06 and you'll see what I mean.

[boondocksaint]

I thought it was because the A6 wasn't carrying around the extra fun of an M6, so without the extra weight of joy, it is able to get up there a bit faster.

j/k. What they ^^^ said.

[SS376]

Originally Posted by 2013 ZL1 #7860

The responses in this thread are

The rated HP from GM is the SAME for both the Auto and Manual ZL1.
They both us the same LSA motor (unlike the SS which uses slightly different V8's and thus have different GM rated HP).

The "rated" GM HP is at the crank and does not include losses die to accessories and drivetrain.
A manual transmission has a Direct connection from the engine to the wheels while an Automatic transmission (traditional auto anyway) has a torque converter.
A torque converter is a Fluid Connection from the engine to the wheels and thus will always loose some power in the transfer from mechanical to fluid to mechanical again (heat).
Autos dyno a little less than Manuals do because of this power loss into heat.

But the Auto and Manual have different gearing in all gears and in the final drive. This results in different acceleration and shift points in the 1/4 mile.
Also a torque converter by design multiplies the torque the engine makes, something a clutch does not do.

Personally i picked the ZL1 because it has an Auto option and it makes ALL difference at the drag strip which is what I bought it for. Im sure a Manual is more fun to drive on the street and the road course.

Cant go wrong with either choice IMO!

Almost. GM's factory rating, like all manufacturers, measures hp WITH accessories attached. You're right that it's not meaured at the wheels though. They haven't measured it without accessories since 1971.

[2013 ZL1 #7860]

Originally Posted by SS376

Almost. GM's factory rating, like all manufacturers, measures hp WITH accessories attached. You're right that it's not meaured at the wheels though. They haven't measured it without accessories since 1971.

Then why does the 2010 LS3 with hydraulic power steering have the same rating as the 2015 LS3 with electric power steering.

[SS376]

Originally Posted by 2013 ZL1 #7860

Then why does the 2010 LS3 with hydraulic power steering have the same rating as the 2015 LS3 with electric power steering.

Probably because the power difference is small and therefore within the typical variance that occurs between engines coming off the line.