Trimming the fat...

[deletedd]

Originally Posted by MrIcky

My honest take on the weight:

GM took a no compromise approach in sticking as close to the concept in appearance as pausible. It worked and the car is stunning for it.

However the trick is that the concept had a very low cockpit with extravagantly flaired 'hips'. In order to keep those proportions right and have a car that real people would fit in required a fairly large platform.

Large platforms = more weight. It's that simple to me- it's partially new regulations, but really- in order to not compromise on the artistic design component required some compromise on the weight component. I think this was successful. GM saw that you didn't want just a new Camaro, you wanted that concepts design.

If you look at the Mustang you can see that the design allowed for a higher greenhouse. So with the higher greenhouse relative to the car, you could have a smaller overall car that people will fit into. So you could probably pretty accurately say that function followed form.

You can argue about numbers all day, but really as long as your performance is at least some acceptable level-then it all comes down to design. For instance, numbers aside I'd rather have a Challenger RT than a Mustang because of style. It performs with enough vigor that I can look at the design. I like the Camaros styling and the numbers are the dressing on top. The fact cars like the Mustang may handle a little better doesn't make a bit of difference to me as long as the Camaro is competitive.

OH MY GOD! WOW! I THINK THIS IS THE BEST POST I'VE READ IN THIS THREAD ALL DAY!

So, Mr. Settlemire, did he hit the nail on the head?

[ShnOmac]

Originally Posted by RatedZ

Correct on all accounts. I drove one and felt the steering was numb. Is it as responsive as all of the cars I've owned? Not at all. It's not as responsive as all of the cars I've ever driven, either. Do I expect it to handle like an STi? Absolutely not. That would be ridiculous to even ponder the thought. Do I expect it to feel and handle as well as my '94 B4C? Absolutely.

You can throw the fanciest suspension on the heaviest of cars, and while it may improve the handling, it's not going to mask the weight of a heavy car.

I guess we are just going to have to agree to disagree then....
Because in my opinion/expierence tuning the suspension can make the car feel/handle a lot lighter and more nimble. You can make the car a little lighter and greatly improve the handling by going with aftermarket suspension and lighter wheels.

[Doc]

Originally Posted by RatedZ

I could deal to shed a few pounds, and I've been working on it. I weigh 223.5 and I'm 5'11. I've been working on losing weight.

What I'd like to know is when the turned into a pissing war, and why. You all need to get over the "pig" comment already. Get a life, really. It's a freakin' car. I'm not attacking your mothers. Get over it. What is this, a forum full of teenie-boppers here? Sorry (not really...) that 75% of you get all butt-hurt when somebody calls your car "overweight." With skin that thin, I wonder how you all make it through daily life.

You're not a "refined" kind of person; the Camaro really wasn't designed for you. Even if you reduce some weight the car is not your type.

Just for anyone's info here the Camaro is a heavy car, but under no circumstances is it a "pig". To reduce weight I'm doing the following but be prepared to spend a few coins:

19" 3-piece forged rims; same size all the way around to help reduce understeer. Saves about 36 lbs.

Lighter 2-piece brake rotors save about 10 lbs on the front.

Lighter catback exhaust saves about 37 lbs.

Pedders suspension will save about 50 lbs.

Carbon fiber 1-piece driveshaft should save about 10 lbs.

Lighter battery can save about 20 lbs.

Most of the above reduces unsprung weight which will have the most dramatic effect on the car's performance.

The above mods will change the performance as though the car is about 300 lbs lighter. With a CAI and exhaust you'll pick up about 25 hp so to make the math easy, let's say 24 which added to the SS with M6 trans will put you at 450 hp. Take 300 lbs off the car via the mods above and you have 3560 lbs / 450 = 7.9 lbs per hp for your p/w ratio. Add headers and a tune and you'll have your target and a gorgeous car that's a joy to drive and comfortable while doing it.

It can be done and I'm in the process of doing it. But I have NO intention of slamming the car around like the Dukes of Hazzard. Sounds like that's the kind of style you're looking for so you might as well forget a Camaro; not your type.

[ShnOmac]

Originally Posted by Doc

You're not a "refined" kind of person; the Camaro really wasn't designed for you. Even if you reduce some weight the car is not your type.

Just for anyone's info here the Camaro is a heavy car, but under no circumstances is it a "pig". To reduce weight I'm doing the following but be prepared to spend a few coins:

19" 3-piece forged rims; same size all the way around to help reduce understeer. Saves about 36 lbs.

Lighter 2-piece brake rotors save about 10 lbs on the front.

Lighter catback exhaust saves about 37 lbs.

Pedders suspension will save about 50 lbs.

Carbon fiber 1-piece driveshaft should save about 10 lbs.

Lighter battery can save about 20 lbs.

Most of the above reduces unsprung weight which will have the most dramatic effect on the car's performance.

The above mods will change the performance as though the car is about 300 lbs lighter. With a CAI and exhaust you'll pick up about 25 hp so to make the math easy, let's say 24 which added to the SS with M6 trans will put you at 450 hp. Take 300 lbs off the car via the mods above and you have 3560 lbs / 450 = 7.9 lbs per hp for your p/w ratio. Add headers and a tune and you'll have your target and a gorgeous car that's a joy to drive and comfortable while doing it.

It can be done and I'm in the process of doing it. But I have NO intention of slamming the car around like the Dukes of Hazzard. Sounds like that's the kind of style you're looking for so you might as well forget a Camaro; not your type.

Doc do you have a "build" thread?

[MrIcky]

LOL, first time I've ever heard someone make the accusation that someone wasn't 'refined' enough for a Camaro. GM- you are making progress!

[Doc]

Originally Posted by shnomac77

Doc do you have a "build" thread?

Not yet but I'm going to. All I've done so far is get a Zoomers catback exhaust so there's not exactly tons of excitement to see there yet lol. Zoomers sounds just great but it's just a pic or two item. I'm waiting for my rims to be ready and once I get those on the car I'll start a build thread. I'll try and get group buys going for any like-minds who want to do the same type of build; we just got one for the front rotors. I'm still working on getting something going for the cf driveshaft.

[ShnOmac]

Originally Posted by Doc

Not yet but I'm going to. All I've done so far is get a Zoomers catback exhaust so there's not exactly tons of excitement to see there yet lol. Zoomers sounds just great but it's just a pic or two item. I'm waiting for my rims to be ready and once I get those on the car I'll start a build thread. I'll try and get group buys going for any like-minds who want to do the same type of build; we just got one for the front rotors. I'm still working on getting something going for the cf driveshaft.

I like the direction you are heading with your car I will be following intently!

[CamaroSpike23]

the camaro is a pig. compared to previous generations.
compared to the mustang and the chally, its right in between the two.

that being said...

RatedZ....

besides removing/replacing everything that isnt required to make the car move ie: airbags, underhood components, rear seats, liner, carpet, etc.

there is a more indepth way to go at it...

http://www.carriagehousecustoms.com/.../2010-SS1.html

[deletedd]

Originally Posted by Doc

You're not a "refined" kind of person; the Camaro really wasn't designed for you. Even if you reduce some weight the car is not your type.

Just for anyone's info here the Camaro is a heavy car, but under no circumstances is it a "pig". To reduce weight I'm doing the following but be prepared to spend a few coins:

19" 3-piece forged rims; same size all the way around to help reduce understeer. Saves about 36 lbs.

Lighter 2-piece brake rotors save about 10 lbs on the front.

Lighter catback exhaust saves about 37 lbs.

Pedders suspension will save about 50 lbs.

Carbon fiber 1-piece driveshaft should save about 10 lbs.

Lighter battery can save about 20 lbs.

Most of the above reduces unsprung weight which will have the most dramatic effect on the car's performance.

The above mods will change the performance as though the car is about 300 lbs lighter. With a CAI and exhaust you'll pick up about 25 hp so to make the math easy, let's say 24 which added to the SS with M6 trans will put you at 450 hp. Take 300 lbs off the car via the mods above and you have 3560 lbs / 450 = 7.9 lbs per hp for your p/w ratio. Add headers and a tune and you'll have your target and a gorgeous car that's a joy to drive and comfortable while doing it.

It can be done and I'm in the process of doing it. But I have NO intention of slamming the car around like the Dukes of Hazzard. Sounds like that's the kind of style you're looking for so you might as well forget a Camaro; not your type.

Actually, this is what I'm looking for. As for being into "refined" automobiles, no, I'm really not; I mean, geez, I own an STi that has next to no sound deadening, a stiff suspension, and it crashes and bangs over the slightest of bumps.

And then there's the other side of me who wants a comfortable machine that looks good, goes fast in a straight line, and is fun to drive in the twisties. I'm not looking to "slam the car around like the Dukes of Hazzard," but I surely want a car that I can take a corner with. I like to drive....how you'd call, "spirited."

If I can get a Camaro down to 35xx lbs, I can live with that. It's not quite my target weight, but it's close enough.

[OUR72GTO]

Originally Posted by Partick

Milk, you're going curdle with that tone... lighten up! I'm not one of the bashers but seriously who died and left you in charge of manners? People are entitled to express their opinions and just because you don't see them as constructive doesn't give you the right to scold and threaten them. The op went there with his coice of words so it shouldn't be a surprise some are going to respond accordingly.

I agree. Hate to see Milk become Yogurt.

I'm shaking my head wondering why there is any " warning".

I thought the tone was quite civil.

[Gen5SSRS]

You guys are leaving out the most obvious weight saver. Factor in the Trunk Monkey Delete option. That should get you close to you desired weight.

BTW: I love my SS and wouldn't change a thing! GM did a great job of "design to delivery" building. My 5th new Camaro, and so far my favorite.

[khislop007]

Originally Posted by talwell

The Camaro is a package - it was designed, engineered and built exactly as it should be. It was not designed to be 500lbs lighter - and there are many reasons for that. I cannot understand why curb weight would matter to most anyone - unless you plan to race it and in that case just buy a body in white and built it any way that you desire.

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by MikesZ

The weight diminishes the fuel economy. I would like to see a lighter Camaro in the future capable of 35 mpg (highway).

Weight doesn't effect highway fuel economy. You want to adjust aerodynamics, and efficiency to improve that.

Originally Posted by fbodfather

Dragoneye......

Your wisdom far exceeds your age in real years. I'm always amazed at your reasoning.

God Bless you.

Thank you, Fbod.

Originally Posted by shnomac77

Sooooo whats in store for the Camaro?

Pure Magic...mark my words.


RatedZ, this is the last time I'll post in here, only because I have nothing more to say, not becaue I'm upset or whatever...

Though in the minority, a few people want to do what you want to do, and there's no reason to attack anybody who wants to...it's just another form of modification. But unless you work in or around the auto Industry, it's nearly impossible to understand the reasons behind the 'problem', and exactly how difficult it is to "fix" it.

My post that you quoted as "fail", attempted to explain that to you, in detail, and calmly...apparently, you'll stop at nothing however to ignore reason and continue with this game.

[deletedd]

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

Weight doesn't effect highway fuel economy. You want to adjust aerodynamics, and efficiency to improve that.


Thank you, Fbod.


Pure Magic...mark my words.


RatedZ, this is the last time I'll post in here, only because I have nothing more to say, not becaue I'm upset or whatever...

Though in the minority, a few people want to do what you want to do, and there's no reason to attack anybody who wants to...it's just another form of modification. But unless you work in or around the auto Industry, it's nearly impossible to understand the reasons behind the 'problem', and exactly how difficult it is to "fix" it.

My post that you quoted as "fail", attempted to explain that to you, in detail, and calmly...apparently, you'll stop at nothing however to ignore reason and continue with this game.

No, actually, this thread was littered by all kinds of poor, tortured souls who felt my "pig" statement was just too much to bear. If everyone would have stuck to the question at hand, this thread would have died a long time ago. It's not my fault you have such an immature bunch floating around your site.

It's your group of people who can't stick to a subject at hand which is a legitimate one. It was real simple. All I was looking for was advice on how I could pull unneeded weight out of a vehicle that I was possibly going to purchase. It's called "research." All anyone had to do was answer the question, but instead, a few of the fanboys chose to start a flame war out of a simple subject.

Enjoy your forum, and thanks for no help. Good to know where not to look for any sort of useful info.