ModROTOR™ by NALLEN...

[g-townmach]

17-4 is going to get reeeeal pricey buying in plate form. Plus it's very hard to find. Trust me, I'm quoting a job on it right now. Going to be much cheaper buying in round barstock. We machine alot of 17-4. Good thing about 17-4 is it's tough and you can heat-treat to 900 deg and it will hold up very well to fractures. 6AL Ti is going to get reeeeal pricey for you in that big of dia plus in the machining, but still would be cool. What kind of quantities are you looking at? We'll quote the machining for you.

[nallen00]

Originally Posted by PQ

Manually subscribed.

I'll be watching.

Originally Posted by SupremacyCustoms

I like keep us posted!

Thanks!

[nallen00]

Originally Posted by g-townmach

17-4 is going to get reeeeal pricey buying in plate form. Plus it's very hard to find. Trust me, I'm quoting a job on it right now. Going to be much cheaper buying in round barstock. We machine alot of 17-4. Good thing about 17-4 is it's tough and you can heat-treat to 900 deg and it will hold up very well to fractures. 6AL Ti is going to get reeeeal pricey for you in that big of dia plus in the machining, but still would be cool. What kind of quantities are you looking at? We'll quote the machining for you.

Not sure about numbers at this point. After testing is finished, we'll sell a couple sets at cost to help generate awareness. At least one racing and one street app. Thanks for the offer, but we've built a solid relationship with our local vendor. Trust me, we've done our homework

Originally Posted by mtcwby

Racing Brake already has 2 pc rotors for the Camaro SS. I put them on my car 2 weeks ago. http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=59008

What's funny about this is that their patents popped up during our original IP search, as well as GiroDisc, Powerbrake, and others. We're not worried about Racing Brake. Not even in the same galaxy.

[Mr Twisty]

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/6032769.html

That's closer to your project.

[nallen00]

I've seen this one. Several problems, though - not the least of which are the 20+ blind holes cut into the discs directly opposite the friction face. That, and look at the way the dowels are installed. Any differential in friction would place a significant torque on these pins, forcing them to pivot on the ribs. And the ribs are tapered, no less. Their explanation for tapering the ribs is to normalize pressure drops between the rotor I.D. and O.D. Unfortunately, the aerodynamics of rotation are slightly more involved than simply tapering the ribs for constant cross-section. In fact, S.O.P. is to design a pressure differential between the I.D. and O.D. to drive airflow. Not surprising this hasn't gone anywhere...

[nallen00]

Fresh photos. April can't come soon enough...

[RedJewel2SS]

will you be planning on offering these in cross-drilled/slotted and zinc plated like some other rotors?

[Hess RS]

only thing im not sure about is how the fins will work with the inner area blocked off. the inside of almost every rotor ive seen is open, allowing the centrifugal force of the spinning rotor to "spin" air through it. having that blocked off on the inside I dont see how they would cool very well.

[nallen00]

SH!T...! Why didn't we think of that?! lol

It isn't "centrifugal force" that powers this airflow. Here's a snapshot:

The cooling "engine" starts at spinup as the static air is "slung" out of the rotor, leaving behind a negative pressure, drawing more air. So what powers air out of the rotor? Imagine you have a door stop and a pinball. Place the door stop on a flat surface, and the pinball in front of the door stop. If you accelerate the door stop quickly enough, it will pass under the pinball, slinging it into the air. Now stand the door stop on its big end, and place the pinball in front of it...same result. Now move the door stop through an arc...same mechanics. But since the door stop is moving through the arc, only the door stop experiences "centrifugal force". The pinball is powered by the door stop. In other words, it's a rotor's geometry, not "centrifugal force", that powers airflow.

Because aluminum sheds heat so rapidly, we're able to rely on the turbulent air at the rotor O.D. to drive our cooling. This air is moving much faster than the rotor's core air, creating a difference in pressure. The result is a continuous sucking in, and slinging out of air.

Valid concern. What you don't realize is that we've witnessed every particle of air pass over and through this rotor - its energy, direction, and the heat it carries away. We've been through three (3) iterations, and hundreds of hours of design and simulation for each of them. After all that, and advertising it as being thermally superior to its closest competitor, we'd have to be complete assholes to miss something like this. No offense

A quick sketch to help visualize the above:

[Hess RS]

I see where you are coming from. But If you figure creating a negative pressure inside the vanes, at a constant speed the rotor will keep a constant vacuum in the rotor. The only way I see the rotor "clearing" out is if it was starting and stopping, creating a cycle of negative and normal pressure. you can push the doorstop under the ball and sling the ball away, but thats ball is gone, and where does the next ball come from? I just see a lot of OD cavitation, and not much internal air flow. Id love to see some real world tests on a brake dyno though.

[Nine Ball]

Interesting discussion and theory on the cooling process. I'm a mechanical engineer by trade, specialized in compressible fluid mechanics in college. I'd be interested in seeing computer models of this cooling process, using turbulent air to cool the fins. ltlaudio makes a good point about the ball being replaced.

[Chris_B]

Originally Posted by Nine Ball

Interesting discussion and theory on the cooling process. I'm a mechanical engineer by trade, specialized in compressible fluid mechanics in college. I'd be interested in seeing computer models of this cooling process, using turbulent air to cool the fins. ltlaudio makes a good point about the ball being replaced.

I'm also an engineer with a couple of decades of clutch and brake design and test experience. This is a very interesting design that am curious to see develop. I do know that there are some substantial reasons that the inner and outer plates are connected the way they are in racing and high-performance rotors.

As far as air flow is concerned, there have been many, many tests done to arrive at the current state of the art. Most fluid dynamics model both over-simplify the flow field as well as incorrectly model the turbulent air inside of a rotating wheel on a moving car. Having worked with some top motorsports aerodynamicists on brake ducting in wind tunnels, there is a lot more to brake cooling than meets the eye. It might be too much to ask, but I'd like to see how this was modeled as well.

[Hess RS]

See, Im not the only crazy one :-)

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by nallen00

Correct. All testing at this point is "in math". Among our services is simulation and analysis featuring COMSOL Multiphysics. We've run a 1000+ simulations over two (2) years, factoring every known force, both mechanical and thermal, in various performance and motorsport environments. Our first physical test session is scheduled for April at Putnam Park...

Definitely shows ingenuity.

My experience is math gets you in the ball park. It won't replace the 1,000s of hours of physical testing for this safety critical part. That is unless you have your model correlated. Hot, cold, salt, thermal shock and on and on as I would expect you are planning.