MACE 25mm Insulator

[Blade]

Originally Posted by PoorMansCamaro

anyone with an injen long tube intake get a 25mm insulator yet? i was thinking about it, and am wondering if this would still work. the injen is connected to a subframe to help keep it from moving around. wasn't sure how raising it an inch would affect it, if at all. i'm assuming that you would no longer be able to support it, using the same hole, or maybe need to find some different hardware.



i'm talking about that little bracket piece that sticks out.

The injen won't have an issue with this.....the install at the TB is pretty flexible

[spyderbuddy]

Just a question, could we mill the IM to take out some of the height cause by the insulators?

[rtcat600man]

Originally Posted by spyderbuddy

Just a question, could we mill the IM to take out some of the height cause by the insulators?

why not just buy one of the smaller insulators, they come in 6 mm, 12 mm thickness too.

[spyderbuddy]

I thought they whe're having bolt issues? And the Vararam not lining up? It was just a suggestion. Still if you could mill out 12 MM then maybe you could go to a larger /deeper insulator.

[Mach]

Originally Posted by spyderbuddy

I thought they whe're having bolt issues? And the Vararam not lining up? It was just a suggestion. Still if you could mill out 12 MM then maybe you could go to a larger /deeper insulator.

The length of the intake runners PLUS the insulator thickness is what gives you more TQ and HP. If you mill the intake you are decreasing that length. Therefore not as much of a power and torque bump.

No more bolt issues Mace has revised the bolts. They are all correct now.

[rtcat600man]

Originally Posted by Mach

The length of the intake runners PLUS the insulator thickness is what gives you more TQ and HP. If you mill the intake you are decreasing that length. Therefore not as much of a power and torque bump.

No more bolt issues Mace has revised the bolts. They are all correct now.

How much of the HP and TQ is from the added length and how much of it is from the cooling effect? I would like to see dyno numbers for each of the different thicknesses.

[bmorecam]

longer runner length will definitely produce more torque in the lower power band, and shorter the length the more power you will produce up top and this is a proven method that racers and engine builders been using for years and years. The problem here is that we are talking about no bigger than an inch of extra length and differences of only 6mm, 9mm(RX), and 12mm. The question here is, is an inch of added length from the factory measurement really big enough to take advantage of runner length benefit.

a quick online calculation for 3.6L V6 engine showed that I need 24" of intake length and 1.44" square inch of intake runner area from valve head to plenum to have the best torque by 3500rpm. If we want more torque earlier than the intake length will have to get longer than 24"! I don't know what our factory intake length is from the valve head to plenum, but if anyone does then you might be able to get your answer.

One thing I do know for sure is that the insulator is seperating heat from the cylinder head and the intake manifold. I am seeing my IAT avg from ambient temp to about 4-5* over. I can do long and hard runs all day and my manifold stay cold. I can sit at the traffic light and the IAT creep up very very slow. We know that cooler charge of air will produce power, and the insulator does the job very well from what I can tell already. Another thing that's easy to understand is that a thicker insulator will isolate heat better than your thinner counter part.

At the end of the day, we know that the 25mm insulator is worth about 14ft lb of tq. Is that gain all from the temp drop or does the runner length also play a role? I wish I knew

[Mach]

What Bmorecam said...

I think 10 lbs of tq is from the runner length and 4 lbs are are from the insulator heat insulation properties. For a total of 14 ft/lbs of torque.

[MACE_ENG]

For those wondering/waiting all manifold insulators are on their way

I still need to get the bill of materials here which I will soon.

Kindest Regards,
Steve

[rtcat600man]

Originally Posted by bmorecam

longer runner length will definitely produce more torque in the lower power band, and shorter the length the more power you will produce up top and this is a proven method that racers and engine builders been using for years and years. The problem here is that we are talking about no bigger than an inch of extra length and differences of only 6mm, 9mm(RX), and 12mm. The question here is, is an inch of added length from the factory measurement really big enough to take advantage of runner length benefit.

a quick online calculation for 3.6L V6 engine showed that I need 24" of intake length and 1.44" square inch of intake runner area from valve head to plenum to have the best torque by 3500rpm. If we want more torque earlier than the intake length will have to get longer than 24"! I don't know what our factory intake length is from the valve head to plenum, but if anyone does then you might be able to get your answer.

One thing I do know for sure is that the insulator is seperating heat from the cylinder head and the intake manifold. I am seeing my IAT avg from ambient temp to about 4-5* over. I can do long and hard runs all day and my manifold stay cold. I can sit at the traffic light and the IAT creep up very very slow. We know that cooler charge of air will produce power, and the insulator does the job very well from what I can tell already. Another thing that's easy to understand is that a thicker insulator will isolate heat better than your thinner counter part.

At the end of the day, we know that the 25mm insulator is worth about 14ft lb of tq. Is that gain all from the temp drop or does the runner length also play a role? I wish I knew

Thanks for taking the time and doing this nice write-up. The reason for asking was with so many people hung up on the 25 mm and the height for under hood clearance, and being able to work with XXX intake systems. I figured I would see if we could get some answers. My guess is that any of the insulators will work well, some slightly better than others. Unless someone dynos all of them the same day (probably not going to happen) the difference between all of them are really unknown.

I agree the longer the runner the more torque but as you pointed out we are only talking the difference of 6 to 25 mm. Not like we are talking a low rise manifold vs. a high rise manifold with a spacers......

[spyderbuddy]

Originally Posted by rtcat600man

Thanks for taking the time and doing this nice write-up. The reason for asking was with so many people hung up on the 25 mm and the height for under hood clearance, and being able to work with XXX intake systems. I figured I would see if we could get some answers. My guess is that any of the insulators will work well, some slightly better than others. Unless someone dynos all of them the same day (probably not going to happen) the difference between all of them are really unknown.

I agree the longer the runner the more torque but as you pointed out we are only talking the difference of 6 to 25 mm. Not like we are talking a low rise manifold vs. a high rise manifold with a spacers......

Correct, I was trying to get the IM back down to stock height so it would fit in the engine bay and reconnect back to the Vararam. Bolts were an issue at one time. Plus if we could mill say 12mm then the diff would only be the 13mm of the 25mm insulator, and from what I understood this was all for heat soak.

[bmorecam]

So was it ventmaster that was installing the 25mm with vararam? did anyone get it to work?

[Mach]

Originally Posted by bmorecam

So was it ventmaster that was installing the 25mm with vararam? did anyone get it to work?

I'm gonna try it. Still waiting for the insulator from OZ.

[MACE_ENG]

Originally Posted by Mach

I'm gonna try it. Still waiting for the insulator from OZ.

You should definitely see this with in days now fingers crossed.

There had been a delay in dispatch however you should have also seen a part refund as well for your patience as the error was on our end.

Any probs please keep us posted