This is how Chevy treats my $45,000 "track ready" car

[Camaro Dude]

Originally Posted by Tabloma

I am no 1LE expert but I am a Track rat and have plenty of experience with C5 C6 Vettes. My 2008 Z06 says in the owners manual if tracked the clutch fluid needs to changed every 2000 miles or 6 months ( not sure on the months). The Vette forum say change it after every track event even drag racing. So If The 1LE has a hydraulic clutch I am sure the same applies. I can tell you if you put your car on a lift, and truly been to Laguna Seca 3 times for more than one lap each time, your car is not Mint like you say. The sticky tires will cause marring in the paint down low, The front bumper will have the same from debris flying around the track and the bottom will have black marks all over it from rubber on the track. Mint cars and track day car use are mutually exclusive. If you don't believe me, lay on floor and look up at your paint with a bright light. Dealers are not stupid.

What if he has wrapped it up like a condom on a.....as I have done, with paint protection film?

Then what's the verdict?

[Nor Cal ZL1]

Originally Posted by gajagfan

So you had built up enough speed and heat in the tires on that first lap to cause rubber to be in the wheel wells on the first lap but had not put the car in third gear at high RPM? I am just trying to figure out what happened to your car.

Track ready car or not, if you have a major issue with a car like you faced in yours, continuing to drive it is abuse. 100% abuse. If it happens on the street, the strip, or road course, its abuse and no manufacturer should have to stand behind it.

Its is pretty easy to pick up rubber from other tires while on track. If you get a bit offline your tires are picking up "marbels" left from every other tire that has touched the track surface.

[Tabloma]

The wrap, or Clear stone guard will show the road rash instead of the paint, which is a good thing, but the evidence will still be there

[snarky]

Originally Posted by backeddy

Also I want to address some comments...

I had a 2010 GT500 before, fun in a straight line, just don't touch the wheel. That car sucked, broken axles, bearings, drive shaft, steering components etc, but guess what? I spent $50k+ and ford fixed EVERYTHING, they did not blink on anything...EVER.

not sure posting this helps your case. just makes you look brutal. I bet you could tear up a nascar-at-the-glen prepped machine.

+1 for exhibiting unbridled motoring enthusiasm. good luck !

[wakespeak]

I had a friend ruin my clutch in a nearly new car in college going down the street to a 7-11. Luckily the dealer actually covered it. Not accusing the OP, but point is you can ruin a clutch quickly if you slip it constantly. I had a long discussion at the time with the service manager, and got lucky. Technically the clutch is a wear item.

I actually think the HPDE is not hard on the clutch. I am third or forth only and a little throttle blip on downshift I think helps.

I do think the stock DOT3 fluid is not up to track work. Its interesting that the separate clutch reservoir (which is for other GM cars) says DOT 4 only. Also, the transmission fluid can make a big difference. I have Pennzoil synthetic ATF in there now but I think the regular GM fluid was better (my first change after the stock fluid). It it now more notchy, though no grinding.

Lots of black debris when the car was new in the clutch reservoir. Now nearly none. Break in?

[backeddy]

not sure posting this helps your case. just makes you look brutal. I bet you could tear up a nascar-at-the-glen prepped machine.

+1 for exhibiting unbridled motoring enthusiasm. good luck !

I was drag racing the GT500.....and they fixed it, no questions asked. Ever.

[backeddy]

I am no 1LE expert but I am a Track rat and have plenty of experience with C5 C6 Vettes. My 2008 Z06 says in the owners manual if tracked the clutch fluid needs to changed every 2000 miles or 6 months ( not sure on the months). The Vette forum say change it after every track event even drag racing. So If The 1LE has a hydraulic clutch I am sure the same applies. I can tell you if you put your car on a lift, and truly been to Laguna Seca 3 times for more than one lap each time, your car is not

Mint like you say. The sticky tires will cause marring in the paint down low, The front bumper will have the same from debris flying around the track and the bottom will have black marks all over it from rubber on the track. Mint cars and track day car use are mutually exclusive. If you don't believe me, lay on floor and look up at your paint with a bright light. Dealers are not stupid.

It's mint, except the gills. 3M everywhere else

[backeddy]

I also DD 2000-3000 miles per month on bay area freeways, so there is way more probability of damage there, then at laguna.

[backeddy]

Track ready car or not, if you have a major issue with a car like you faced in yours, continuing to drive it is abuse. 100% abuse. If it happens on the street, the strip, or road course, its abuse and no manufacturer should have to stand behind it.

your opinion and you are entitled to it. You are missing the point though...They would not even LOOK at it because of the rubber in the wheel wells.....

[backeddy]

How did rubber get in your wheel wells if you stopped driving after the first time you had a problem with the 2 - 3 shift? Don't you think that driving the car with the problem could be considered abuse? You admitted the car had a problem but you continued to operate the car.....does that not seem odd looking back? Do you not think that if you had stopped when the problem showed up, and gone right to the dealer, you would have gotten a different result? I mean, after all, there would have been no rummer in the wheel wells right?

I never said I stopped did I? and for 1000th time, I figured a "track ready" car would be ok to use on the "track"....I do not red line shift until the straightaway, the rest of the track there is very little high rpm 2-3 shifting due to the speed that can be carried by the 1LE through the turns. I have run this track 100's of laps in many different cars, I know what I am doing and I don't tear up my cars.....I have to drive 150 miles home.

[toehead93]

Originally Posted by DCZ1LE

I've read this whole thread and I see two basic issues:

1. What does the warranty cover
2. What should the warranty cover

I'm not sure if there is real disagreement in principle, or if it's more a matter of degree.

Is there consensus on the following?:

• Do ZL1's and Z28's come with a separate, additional, unique Track Warranty?
• Does the warranty for the ZL1 and Z28 exclude "Competition" and "Racing" same as my 1LE warranty does?

I think there is agreement that the warranty does not (and probably should not) cover abuse whether on track or street. So consider the following driving conditions and what appears to be the general consensus:

1. Street, Moderate Driving: Should be covered
2. Street, Abuse: Should not be covered
3. Track, Moderate Driving: ???
4. Track, Abuse: Should not be covered
5. Racing, Competition: Is not covered

I don't list abuse as an option for racing/competition because I think by the very nature, racing is abusive. In a competition, men and machines are pushed to the limits. In fact, the whole point of a competition is to test those limits - limits of the machine - tires, wheels, drivetrains; men, teams, strategies--push until something breaks.

So we have the idea of not covering abuse (and by extension, racing). There seems to be consensus about this and it's consistent with what we see in the warranty limitations.

And here I think is where there may be disagreement: Is all track use, by it's nature, abuse? If you push a car hard is it abuse? Can you push a car hard for hours without abusing it? Is it simply unfair to expect the manufacturer to warrant track use because of the possibility of abuse? Is it unreasonable for a 1LE owner to expect that track use (short of abuse) should be covered?

The easy answer might be to say track equals abuse. Not because we won't acknowledge that some drivers drive great without hurting their cars, but we could see from a manufacturer's standpoint that track use means hard driving and how can anyone say who's really at fault?

But I can see where someone could make the case that hard driving on the track is different from racing and (short of abuse) should be covered. You can track without trying to break anything, without pushing the car to it's limit and beyond.

Consider a Chevy truck designed for towing. With a big V8 and big brakes. Now hook up a heavy load and pull it through a mountain pass. It will spend hours with the engine and trans at max temp, the brakes constantly pushed to their limit. One could go many hours like this between gas stations or rest areas.

This kind of performance is expected of our trucks. Have you seen truck commercials?

So (forgive me the terribly tortured physics) in general terms isn't it kind of the same whether you're moving 4,000 lbs at 80 mph or moving 8,000 lbs at 40 mph? Why should we equate high speed with abuse? Isn't it just as much about loads, pressures, and temperatures?

Here I could see a track day as a long day of towing. And certainly the 1LE could be outfitted to run hard and brake hard for hours. Not that the brakes won't fade, but they also won't fail.

Is this how the 1LE was designed? Is this how the 1LE was marketed?

Is it reasonable for a 1LE owner to check the "Should be covered" box for moderate track driving?

Good post.

[Coukostos]

This is based off not reading more than the first page of this thread, but why does GM need to cover your need to race a car on a track? I think everyone knows racing a car involves incessant repairs, so I'm a bit bewildered why you think GM should be ponying up the bill for you tracking a car? Am I missing something here? I have a 2010, and have 550rwhp. I am actually amazed how well the stock clutch holds, so I am failing to understand your stance here.

[backeddy]

read the thread, it is a known issue with the GM clutch system and the issue is only observed at illegal speeds at high RPM. Because there was rubber on my wheel wells, the dealer would not even look at the car. He deemed rubber in the wheel wells "Abuse". This is HPDE, not racing, by the way. Also watch GM Al in the video, would you think they would say track use is abuse? just curious, please answer.

[SixSpeeder]

Originally Posted by backeddy

read the thread, it is a known issue with the GM clutch system and the issue is only observed at illegal speeds at high RPM. Because there was rubber on my wheel wells, the dealer would not even look at the car. He deemed rubber in the wheel wells "Abuse". This is HPDE, not racing, by the way. Also watch GM Al in the video, would you think they would say track use is abuse? just curious, please answer.

What's your point? GM will not cover it, and they don't have to. Whether they should is a different argument that you could proceed with and beat to death, but the fact is that the owner's manual is very clear on this: racing = possible warranty denial. You can hire a lawyer if you wish at this point, but you will most likely lose and pay more money than just replacing the fault components. It sucks, do I personally think you should be held responsible for this issue? No, it sounds like a manufacturer's defect to me, but that doesn't change the fact that racing can void your warranty.

I've still yet to see a special ZL1 or Z28 owner's manual that says otherwise, not that that would even apply to this issue. The owner's manual that came with my SS covers the ZL1 and Z28 in it as though all of the models get the same one.