Oshawa, and CAFE....

[Scotsman]

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

And we need the Volt, (and competitor's cars inspired by it) badly. THAT will ease a tremendous burden off of us. Imagine only filling up once a month....

I'm all for cars like the Volt, believe me, but I can't say that I'm the one who'll be driving one(probably not). I care about the future of of cars like the Camaro(how many times I've said that.. you're probably cringing by now). Otherwise you can find me behind the wheel of some preppy, euro-trash mobile that I'll have wasted half my life savings on just to ensure that I have an entertaining means of point A to B transportation. I'm an enthusiast first and foremost, never a numbers cruncher.

[The_Stache]

Originally Posted by DerScotsman

If gas prices do end up hitting European levels, our market will indeed end up looking very much like theirs. European cars are even expensive for Europeans, they're version of CAFE is 45mpg or something like that. Ridiculous. We need ethanol badly.

Actually we need the US Gov to be less strict on diesel (hell we regulate gas on Miles per gallon, while diesel is emissions per gallon)

An actual diesel market is a HUGE reason the euro's can do the 45mpg cafe.

(and yes you can get performance out of a diesel)

[Scotsman]

Originally Posted by diarmadhi

Actually we need the US Gov to be less strict on diesel (hell we regulate gas on Miles per gallon, while diesel is emissions per gallon)

An actual diesel market is a HUGE reason the euro's can do the 45mpg cafe.

(and yes you can get performance out of a diesel)

Well there's a lot of splash about low sulfur diesel fuel that just recently came on board here; it's a major reason why a lot of foreign automakers are starting to bring more diesels stateside.

[JaysonAych]

Looks like Oshawa is threatening a strike around Camaro-production-time if GM doesn't make plans to use the capacity they won't be using with the RWD platform cancellation....

[GTAHVIT]

Originally Posted by JaysonAych

Looks like Oshawa is threatening a strike around Camaro-production-time if GM doesn't make plans to use the capacity they won't be using with the RWD platform cancellation....

Wow.

Good news is there is plenty of time to get this sorted out. I could be totaly wrong, since I have zero insight as to what GM is dealing with, but it bugs me a little that CAFE is being blammed... I truly respect the current execs at GM. But, On one hand they are confident that they can meet the CAFE requirements and on the other they say it is uexpected...

Easy to armchair quarterback from here. For now GM gets the benefit of the doubt.

I still have faith.

[Scotsman]

They say they're ready to deal with it because that's the only option they have, the government hasn't left room for much else. It's really hard for me to have faith when you have someone like Bob Lutz (good guy, says things that bother me- rightfully so, he's honest) who isn't going to sugar-coat the bad news, but doesn't tell some of the other things that might be as equally important and equally "good news". I WANT to know that the V8 engine is going to stay and not replaced by some wimpy 6 cylinder. I want to know that the G8 and Camaro (AND non-Cadillac cars) aren't the only RWD cars GM has in the pipe-line for the future. The "faith" needs an explanation to be validated, blindly believing just because doesn't cut it for me.

[camarocrazy28]

A union in Canada was partly to blame for the demise of our beloved Camaro in 2002. You see, in 2002 the factory in Canada that produced the Camaro and the Firebird had exclusive rights through 2007 to produce the F-body. Unfortunately, the factory was not producing at or near full capacity. As a result, the production of the F-body was deemed to expensive and the factory was closed, ending Camaro and Firebird production until 2007. Hopefully GM will work this out in time for the Camaro's return. I would hate to see history repeat itself.

[Scotsman]

Originally Posted by camarocrazy28

I would hate to see history repeat itself.

Seriously. Now I feel like writing a letter to Mr. Lutz himself. What do you guys think???

[stovt001]

GM is using CAFE as an excuse for canceling and delaying and minimalizing everything. If they could get away with shutting down all operations and calling it a day and an early retirement by blaming CAFE they would. Simply pathetic.

[GTAHVIT]

Originally Posted by camarocrazy28

....... Hopefully GM will work this out in time for the Camaro's return. I would hate to see history repeat itself.

That would be the worst case scenario as far as I'm concerned. It would suck if it came to that.

Unions are absolutely brutal to work with. Not that they are bad just brutal. It's usually in their best interest to play hardball. Because they know consumers like us will scream bloody murder if we can't get the product. And companies like GM will have to decide if it's more cost effective to give in to the union, appease the consumer or cut bait...

Originally Posted by DerScotsman

....... I want to know that the G8 and Camaro (AND non-Cadillac cars) aren't the only RWD cars GM has in the pipe-line for the future. The "faith" needs an explanation to be validated, blindly believing just because doesn't cut it for me.

Originally Posted by stovt001

GM is using CAFE as an excuse for canceling and delaying and minimalizing everything. If they could get away with shutting down all operations and calling it a day and an early retirement by blaming CAFE they would. Simply pathetic.

I don't like it either. And I'm not a koolaid drinker so it isn't blind faith. But unless one of us has the experience of running a company like GM, we don't really have the right to assume what they are thinking, planning or even hoping for.

To restate what I said before. On the surface is seems like GM is using CAFE a bit much as the excuse. However, I'm not ready to loose confidence in these guys just yet. They make tough decisions all day long that affect thousands of lives. Lets let this play out before we pass too harsh of a judgement. Let 'em play the game before we declare a winner... Or looser as the case may be.

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by stovt001

GM is using CAFE as an excuse for canceling and delaying and minimalizing everything. If they could get away with shutting down all operations and calling it a day and an early retirement by blaming CAFE they would. Simply pathetic.

That's not very fair at all, you know...what would you do in their position? Sell a big-a$$ RWD Impala (and other cars), and pay the fines?

And what exactly does this mean? What is "everything"?
GM is using CAFE as an excuse for canceling and delaying and minimalizing everything.

Or...no, (I've heard this one before - not from you though) - sell the Impala NOW, since the 35mpg regulation isn't untill 2020. Right........and what happens when it's come down to 2013-1016, and these past years have been wasted instead of being used for development of CAFE - beating cars?

No. They are not constantly blaming CAFE - the media just seems to like reporting multiple times on the same statements.. And when they do blame CAFE - it's within good reason. They're damn right to blame CAFE. The bill was put together without much thought, and (IMO) as a PR stunt only. "Yes, we care about the environment - see??" They should have put more thought into it, and more provisions for a comprehensive energy policy. No. Let's raise the CAFE instead. Now our auto industry can suffer more - nice move.

[GTAHVIT]

Dragoneye,

I agree with all your points.

And my impression that CAFE is the standard excuse is most likely due to it being continuously stated as such in the press/media. But to be accurate, the news about the union strike is new and Mr. Low did say "...and nobody anticipated a 35 mpg (CAFE) standard," I'm not passing judgement or placing blame. I'm just trying to be objective. It's way to early to pass judgement on this specific issue. And I also agree that GM is making the best decision it can at the present time. I'm sure they will continue to do so in order to prevent a strike and delays in the product.

[Scotsman]

I think what gets to most of us (me at least) are the implications CAFE has and how it could change what we drive. All the domestics bar GM are canceling V8 programs and replacing them with forced induction 4 and 6 cylinders. To some this is very unnerving, as by tradition performance "muscle' cars have always had a V8 option and the thought of that going the way of the dodo brings many a sleepless night. Now this could all be for nothing, but until someone from GM, Ford, and Chrysler says anything to give us a clear view of what the future holds this is all we can do.... speculate and over-analyze.

[wildpaws]

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

That's not very fair at all, you know...what would you do in their position? Sell a big-a$$ RWD Impala (and other cars), and pay the fines?

And what exactly does this mean? What is "everything"?
GM is using CAFE as an excuse for canceling and delaying and minimalizing everything.

Or...no, (I've heard this one before - not from you though) - sell the Impala NOW, since the 35mpg regulation isn't untill 2020. Right........and what happens when it's come down to 2013-1016, and these past years have been wasted instead of being used for development of CAFE - beating cars?

No. They are not constantly blaming CAFE - the media just seems to like reporting multiple times on the same statements.. And when they do blame CAFE - it's within good reason. They're damn right to blame CAFE. The bill was put together without much thought, and (IMO) as a PR stunt only. "Yes, we care about the environment - see??" They should have put more thought into it, and more provisions for a comprehensive energy policy. No. Let's raise the CAFE instead. Now our auto industry can suffer more - nice move.

Dragoneye, I couldn't agree more. Once again the lunatics at Disney On The Potomac have struck, creating more problems than existed before rather than trying to do something that might resemble a real solution. We constantly worry and fret about those outside of this country doing us harm, yet we are quite capable of destroying ourselves through the continued actions and harmful policies of the U.S. Congress. And yet most Americans stand by and keep on accepting whatever is done instead of raising their voices in opposition. We should start with the CAFE standards, everyone that is concerned should be writing, phoning, and emailing their senators and representatives. We should be complaining to every newspaper, radio, tv stations and any other media outlets that we are damn unhappy with CAFE. Until the people stand up to the jackasses in DC things will never change. I complain to my congressmen when I disagree or have issues with what they are doing, we all need to start doing so, if enough people let them know they are unhappy maybe, just maybe they will think about doing some things differently.
Clyde