Harness bar install - Page 3 - Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums

Synner · 01-12-2014, 11:55 AM

Did you get the 4-points as part of this group buy? Because they wouldn't be legal anyways and the course would tell you to use your stock 3-points.

The rollover and crushing risk is much lower in autocross which is why people will use harness bars more often in that regard. However the ASM risk is still there. Consider how many highway deaths occur and the speeds are"only" in the 40-65 range which is where autocross speeds get to. At least these cars have very little tip over risk in those situations. However I see some crazy open course autocross videos on here with much higher speeds over technical difficulty. Hang out at some miata type events versus muscle car events and see the difference in their turning box sizes and slalom spacing.

On a road course and the chance of hitting the gravel sideways tipover risk is much higher and at much greater speeds. There's also the risk of hitting other cars, tire walls, etc.

In both uses the rigidity of the harness mounting system is critical to your survival. Anything less than a full on roll cage is a compromise of some degree for motorsports, its up to the individual to decide where their level of risk acceptance is. My point in beating this dead horse is awareness of the issues and making an educated choice. That and buying items that are illegal for motorsports use will be wasting your money and could cause you to lose your track fee if you can't run.

Synner · 01-12-2014, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JOHNSONROD

ive started to run in the fast classes and even instruct at some events. we are going to daytona, vir, sebring, the new corvette track and road atlanta in 2014.

When will you be at VIR? I will be there in June, Watkins Glen in Oct. Summit Point dates aren't out yet but I will be there the most. Road Atlanta is a bit too long of a drive for me but Pocono might happen.

mp51998 · 01-12-2014, 01:17 PM

Wow, this DIY has turned into quite a discussion. I am learning a lot. I am running in SCCA Auto X. This is what I have found in the draft of the 2014 SCCA Rule Book.

3.3.1 DRIveR RestRaInts
Seat lap belts are required in all cars, and must be installed in cars with passive restraint systems that do not include a lap belt. Installation and the use of shoulder belts or harnesses is strongly recommended, how- ever non-factory upper body restraints may only be used in open cars, cars with targa-tops in the open position, or cars with T-tops in the open position when two conditions are met:
A. The roll structure must meet either the requirements of Appendix C or the Club Racing General Competition Rules (GCR) 9.4.
B. The top of the roll structure may not be below the top of the driver’s helmet when the driver is in the normal driving position.

I am not sure how to interpret 'non factory upper body restraints'. I have seen hard top cars at our local events running harnesses.
I have ensured that my bar is rock solid as mounted in the DIY. I won't have the chance to run until the beginning of March so I have more time to research. I also only live a mile from were we run so if I need to I can run home and remove it quickly.
JOHNSONROD,I was browsing the RPM bolt in roll cage. Is that the one you have? How do you like it? I do not plan on drag racing this car. I would like to run some road courses in the future so it looks like I will eventually need to upgrade. For now I think I'm going to run it if my events will allow it. I still plan on contacting the manufacturer and inquiring on the build specs.

Synner · 01-12-2014, 01:56 PM

Basically it says use the factory mounting points unless your car didn't have any to begin with because it was topless, or thats how I interpret it. Section 13.2 and appendix C have a lot of good info on minimum standards for everything: tubing, bolts, location, belts, etc.

jksynergy · 01-12-2014, 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Synner

Did you get the 4-points as part of this group buy? Because they wouldn't be legal anyways and the course would tell you to use your stock 3-points.

The rollover and crushing risk is much lower in autocross which is why people will use harness bars more often in that regard. However the ASM risk is still there. Consider how many highway deaths occur and the speeds are"only" in the 40-65 range which is where autocross speeds get to. At least these cars have very little tip over risk in those situations. However I see some crazy open course autocross videos on here with much higher speeds over technical difficulty. Hang out at some miata type events versus muscle car events and see the difference in their turning box sizes and slalom spacing.

On a road course and the chance of hitting the gravel sideways tipover risk is much higher and at much greater speeds. There's also the risk of hitting other cars, tire walls, etc.

In both uses the rigidity of the harness mounting system is critical to your survival. Anything less than a full on roll cage is a compromise of some degree for motorsports, its up to the individual to decide where their level of risk acceptance is. My point in beating this dead horse is awareness of the issues and making an educated choice. That and buying items that are illegal for motorsports use will be wasting your money and could cause you to lose your track fee if you can't run.

Thank you for the info. Yes I did get them as part of the group buy. I, like mp, will be running SCCA auto x along with I hope the Super Chevy and LS Fest events. If the harnesses are not allowed for those, then I will sell or return them and save for a set of 6 point. The 1LE we are ordering will also have the Recaros.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Pharmaro · 01-13-2014, 10:22 AM

Where did you find the m12x1.5 55mm bolt? All I can find is 1.25 or 1.75, and I've been a few places now

SUKXOST · 01-13-2014, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pharmaro

Where did you find the m12x1.5 55mm bolt? All I can find is 1.25 or 1.75, and I've been a few places now

Found one at a local no name hardware store...Lowes didnt even have it. LOL

mp51998 · 01-13-2014, 10:36 AM

Same here. Lowes doesn't carry them. I live in an oilfield town so we have a lot of suppliers. Took the one from the car and told them I needed one with a smaller shoulder. They are the ones who told me the thread is is 1.50. I asked so I could put it in the DIY.

JOHNSONROD · 01-15-2014, 02:14 PM

im going to this one. i go to this one every year. its turned into a huge event that amateur and pros alike attend. nothing like having andy pilgrim or newlander run you down in a corvette.
http://www.corvettemuseum.org/regist.../virinfo.shtml

video from last year. 1st segment is my wife and i rollin in the black group. 2nd segment is me taking my student out to help him with traffic issues, its much slower. 3rd segment is my buddy from NASA riding with me to see my approach to oak tree.

here is my most recent trip to road atlanta in december with NASA. it was after the off road pipes and teds tune. it sounds soooo much better now.

i did get the RPM bar. it should be here in a week or two. i got the 6 point chromoly bar to save some weight. ill actually come out a few pounds ahead after all is said and done. my seats are only 17 pounds a piece and the bar is 45 (factory seats alone weight over 100 pounds). with the factory belts and steering wheel swapped out i should be way way stiffer and like 15-20 pounds lighter to boot. the way i see it, a real roll bar makes the car stiffer than front and rear tower braces and it gives you a perfect location for the shoulder straps all the while adding roll over protection too.

Pharmaro · 01-17-2014, 07:04 PM

Just an update with my bar and harnesses installed. Had to order some of the bolts online because I couldn't find them locally.

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mySSt · 01-17-2014, 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pharmaro

Where did you find the m12x1.5 55mm bolt? All I can find is 1.25 or 1.75, and I've been a few places now

If you have a Fastenal store near you, they should have what you need.

Pharmaro · 01-17-2014, 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mySSt

If you have a Fastenal store near you, they should have what you need.

I do and they didn't lol. They were my last stop and I did buy from them online though.

mp51998 · 01-18-2014, 01:01 AM

Looks good Parmaro. I won't get to use mine till the beginning of March. If you do before that please post up your impressions. I am considering a cage like JOHNSONROD has. I'd like to see one in person before I make that jump tho.

JOHNSONROD · 01-18-2014, 10:53 AM

when i was looking at the cipher bar, i thought about possibly welding a bar on each side that would kick back and bolt to the rear seat mount plates. the ones that have two threaded holes per side. you could have a plate with two holes welded to a single bar per side that also welds to the cipher bar. then i wanted to mount my belts tp the cipher cross bar instead of going down and back to the rear seat belt locations. i know it would be way stronger and a better angle for the belts. i just didnt know who to talk to about it passing inspection at some events. i guess if the cipher bar diameter and thickness was within their spec and you had a certified weld shop put in the kick back bars, you might be o.k.
it would also stiffen the car body like a rear shock tower brace.

01-13-2014, 10:36 AM	#36
mp51998 Drives: Black 2011 2SS/RS Join Date: May 2011 Location: S. Texas Posts: 1,817	Same here. Lowes doesn't carry them. I live in an oilfield town so we have a lot of suppliers. Took the one from the car and told them I needed one with a smaller shoulder. They are the ones who told me the thread is is 1.50. I asked so I could put it in the DIY. Last edited by mp51998; 01-13-2014 at 02:39 PM.

01-12-2014, 11:55 AM	#29
Synner Drives: cars Join Date: May 2011 Location: Oversneeze Posts: 4,542	Did you get the 4-points as part of this group buy? Because they wouldn't be legal anyways and the course would tell you to use your stock 3-points. The rollover and crushing risk is much lower in autocross which is why people will use harness bars more often in that regard. However the ASM risk is still there. Consider how many highway deaths occur and the speeds are"only" in the 40-65 range which is where autocross speeds get to. At least these cars have very little tip over risk in those situations. However I see some crazy open course autocross videos on here with much higher speeds over technical difficulty. Hang out at some miata type events versus muscle car events and see the difference in their turning box sizes and slalom spacing. On a road course and the chance of hitting the gravel sideways tipover risk is much higher and at much greater speeds. There's also the risk of hitting other cars, tire walls, etc. In both uses the rigidity of the harness mounting system is critical to your survival. Anything less than a full on roll cage is a compromise of some degree for motorsports, its up to the individual to decide where their level of risk acceptance is. My point in beating this dead horse is awareness of the issues and making an educated choice. That and buying items that are illegal for motorsports use will be wasting your money and could cause you to lose your track fee if you can't run.

01-12-2014, 01:17 PM	#31
mp51998 Drives: Black 2011 2SS/RS Join Date: May 2011 Location: S. Texas Posts: 1,817	Wow, this DIY has turned into quite a discussion. I am learning a lot. I am running in SCCA Auto X. This is what I have found in the draft of the 2014 SCCA Rule Book. 3.3.1 DRIveR RestRaInts Seat lap belts are required in all cars, and must be installed in cars with passive restraint systems that do not include a lap belt. Installation and the use of shoulder belts or harnesses is strongly recommended, how- ever non-factory upper body restraints may only be used in open cars, cars with targa-tops in the open position, or cars with T-tops in the open position when two conditions are met: A. The roll structure must meet either the requirements of Appendix C or the Club Racing General Competition Rules (GCR) 9.4. B. The top of the roll structure may not be below the top of the driver’s helmet when the driver is in the normal driving position. I am not sure how to interpret 'non factory upper body restraints'. I have seen hard top cars at our local events running harnesses. I have ensured that my bar is rock solid as mounted in the DIY. I won't have the chance to run until the beginning of March so I have more time to research. I also only live a mile from were we run so if I need to I can run home and remove it quickly. JOHNSONROD,I was browsing the RPM bolt in roll cage. Is that the one you have? How do you like it? I do not plan on drag racing this car. I would like to run some road courses in the future so it looks like I will eventually need to upgrade. For now I think I'm going to run it if my events will allow it. I still plan on contacting the manufacturer and inquiring on the build specs.

01-12-2014, 01:56 PM	#32
Synner Drives: cars Join Date: May 2011 Location: Oversneeze Posts: 4,542	Basically it says use the factory mounting points unless your car didn't have any to begin with because it was topless, or thats how I interpret it. Section 13.2 and appendix C have a lot of good info on minimum standards for everything: tubing, bolts, location, belts, etc.

01-13-2014, 10:22 AM	#34
Pharmaro Drives: 2011 CGM 2SS/RS Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Louisville Posts: 368	Where did you find the m12x1.5 55mm bolt? All I can find is 1.25 or 1.75, and I've been a few places now

01-17-2014, 07:04 PM	#38
Pharmaro Drives: 2011 CGM 2SS/RS Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Louisville Posts: 368	Just an update with my bar and harnesses installed. Had to order some of the bolts online because I couldn't find them locally.

01-18-2014, 01:01 AM	#41
mp51998 Drives: Black 2011 2SS/RS Join Date: May 2011 Location: S. Texas Posts: 1,817	Looks good Parmaro. I won't get to use mine till the beginning of March. If you do before that please post up your impressions. I am considering a cage like JOHNSONROD has. I'd like to see one in person before I make that jump tho.

01-18-2014, 10:53 AM	#42
JOHNSONROD Drives: 62 Chevy & 2021 1SS/1LE manual Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Kentucky Posts: 893	when i was looking at the cipher bar, i thought about possibly welding a bar on each side that would kick back and bolt to the rear seat mount plates. the ones that have two threaded holes per side. you could have a plate with two holes welded to a single bar per side that also welds to the cipher bar. then i wanted to mount my belts tp the cipher cross bar instead of going down and back to the rear seat belt locations. i know it would be way stronger and a better angle for the belts. i just didnt know who to talk to about it passing inspection at some events. i guess if the cipher bar diameter and thickness was within their spec and you had a certified weld shop put in the kick back bars, you might be o.k. it would also stiffen the car body like a rear shock tower brace.