Alternative fuels/Algae-oil

[The Black Stig]

Damn number three Long winded much?

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by The Black Stig

Damn number three Long winded much?

No, why? I tried to be very brief in my post

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by Number 3

...Sugar ethanol is far cleaner burning than corn based ethanol too. ...

How does that work? Ethanol is C2H7OH, regardless of feedstock.

[Vega]

See Ethynol is a GREAT idea for cars, even E85 and corn based fuels and all that its a really really great idea, just its not catching on as well as it should because the public has these "electric car" and "hydrogen car" ideas put in their head (which im seriously against electric cars, i dont think it will help anything in the long run but thats a different argument) See at least corn-based Ethynol is made from the cernel of feed corn, it doesnt even effect our food supply at all (common misconception) also Ethynol has a higher octane value and so is a better performance fuel (better for us Camaro enthusiests =D) also Ethynol is an EASY conversion from gasoline, i mean if you're going to convert a nation of people from one fuel to another in any plausible way it has to be an extremely easy conversion and as of right now you can buy systems that convert your car from gas to ethynol, other than that its all liquid based, works from a pump, in basic terms it doesnt change the process we're so accustomed to using and everyone can swap over rather easily, the problem with electric or hydrogen cars is you need a whole new system for cars themselves and refuelling and the price just adds up WAY too quick, designing for this and that, then installation, and how new technology has rediculous costs at first, you cant get a nation of people to go out and buy brand new $70,000 cars, Ethynol on the other hand you can use your current car, its an easy change, its way safer, way cleaner, way easier, its domesticly made, its renewable, and your car runs better with it, its pretty much perfect for our situation.

Also i saw a video once that discussed the fact that gasoline engines get worse mileage with E85 or Ethynol, which is true, but the main reason for that is that you're running an engine designed for gasoline on a fuel other than gasoline, that video also went on to explain how the host had built an engine from the ground up made specificly for use with E85 and that that engine puts out 1/4th more power built for and running with E85 than it does when built for and running on gasoline, also that at that rate the gas consumption is equal or even a little better with E85 (and this engine was in a hot-rod haha, pushing i think 900 horsepower ^_^)

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

How does that work? Ethanol is C2H7OH, regardless of feedstock.

Not sure about the Chemistry, but everthing I've read says Sugar based is cleaner than corn.

May have to look up some old articles to confirm that.

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Not sure about the Chemistry, but everthing I've read says Sugar based is cleaner than corn.

May have to look up some old articles to confirm that.

Maybe its the net process?

[The Black Stig]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Not sure about the Chemistry, but everthing I've read says Sugar based is cleaner than corn.

May have to look up some old articles to confirm that.

to make Ethanol you need sugar, You extract the sugar from the corn then you distill it, Have you guys not ever made moonshine????

And for the record IIRc sugar beats yield the most sugar.

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

How does that work? Ethanol is C2H7OH, regardless of feedstock.

I believe it is the overall energy required to MAKE the ethanol from sugar makes it cleaner. Just did some reading and sugar vs. corn shows sugar based ethanol requiring much less energy to produce. So not BURNING cleaner, but over all cleaner and a more efficient process.

[The Black Stig]

Originally Posted by Number 3

I believe it is the overall energy required to MAKE the ethanol from sugar makes it cleaner. Just did some reading and sugar vs. corn shows sugar based ethanol requiring much less energy to produce. So not BURNING cleaner, but over all cleaner and a more efficient process.

But it takes more energy to make straight sugar then to corn.

For sugar u have to

Sugar Beets/Corn/Sugar Cane>Beat to a pulp>Get the sugar out of it>Take the sugar to the ethanol plant>Than you can start the Distaliont process for Ethanol.

OR.
Or using corn or other veggies with high fructose lvls

Sugar Beets/Corn/Sugar Cane>BEAT To a PULP>MASH>Distill

Which sounds easier to you?

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by The Black Stig

But it takes more energy to make straight sugar then to corn.

For sugar u have to

Sugar Beets/Corn/Sugar Cane>Beat to a pulp>Get the sugar out of it>Take the sugar to the ethanol plant>Than you can start the Distaliont process for Ethanol.

OR.
Or using corn or other veggies with high fructose lvls

Sugar Beets/Corn/Sugar Cane>BEAT To a PULP>MASH>Distill

Which sounds easier to you?

The articles indicate sugar require less energy to make ethanol. There was an article about Europe mandating 10% ethanol/biofuels by 2020 and it said Brasilian sugar would meet the sustainability requirement but U.S. Based likely could not.

Not buying or selling but this is why it is a political issue as much as technical.

[MikesZ]

Originally Posted by Vega

See Ethynol is a GREAT idea for cars, even E85 and corn based fuels and all that its a really really great idea, just its not catching on as well as it should because the public has these "electric car" and "hydrogen car" ideas put in their head (which im seriously against electric cars, i dont think it will help anything in the long run but thats a different argument) See at least corn-based Ethynol is made from the cernel of feed corn, it doesnt even effect our food supply at all (common misconception) also Ethynol has a higher octane value and so is a better performance fuel (better for us Camaro enthusiests =D) also Ethynol is an EASY conversion from gasoline, i mean if you're going to convert a nation of people from one fuel to another in any plausible way it has to be an extremely easy conversion and as of right now you can buy systems that convert your car from gas to ethynol, other than that its all liquid based, works from a pump, in basic terms it doesnt change the process we're so accustomed to using and everyone can swap over rather easily, the problem with electric or hydrogen cars is you need a whole new system for cars themselves and refuelling and the price just adds up WAY too quick, designing for this and that, then installation, and how new technology has rediculous costs at first, you cant get a nation of people to go out and buy brand new $70,000 cars, Ethynol on the other hand you can use your current car, its an easy change, its way safer, way cleaner, way easier, its domesticly made, its renewable, and your car runs better with it, its pretty much perfect for our situation.

Also i saw a video once that discussed the fact that gasoline engines get worse mileage with E85 or Ethynol, which is true, but the main reason for that is that you're running an engine designed for gasoline on a fuel other than gasoline, that video also went on to explain how the host had built an engine from the ground up made specificly for use with E85 and that that engine puts out 1/4th more power built for and running with E85 than it does when built for and running on gasoline, also that at that rate the gas consumption is equal or even a little better with E85 (and this engine was in a hot-rod haha, pushing i think 900 horsepower ^_^)

E85 has not grown more because the fuel product is not distributed to most areas outside of the midwest. I would have to travel over 30 minutes to find one of the few fuel stations that offers E85 in my area. Also, I was speaking to a midwesterner recently who told me that he gets worse mileage with the E85 than with regular fuel and the E85 was more expensive. So....not very good incentives to use it.

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by Number 3

The articles indicate sugar require less energy to make ethanol. There was an article about Europe mandating 10% ethanol/biofuels by 2020 and it said Brasilian sugar would meet the sustainability requirement but U.S. Based likely could not.

Not buying or selling but this is why it is a political issue as much as technical.

Thats why I like GM's investment in Coskata (and that other one). They plan on producing cheap ethanol from non-food sources, including municipal waste. Even if their claims turn out to be optimistic, there is huge potential and minimal downsides.

[Mr. Wyndham]

I would like to point out that I DO NOT LIKE brasilian-sugar-based Ethanol because they are cutting down their Rainforests on a massive scale to harvest sugarcane...You don't need to be a crazy-tree-hugger to recognize the importance of forestry to the planet....

Very bad thing going on down there....

Originally Posted by Number 3

I believe it is the overall energy required to MAKE the ethanol from sugar makes it cleaner. Just did some reading and sugar vs. corn shows sugar based ethanol requiring much less energy to produce. So not BURNING cleaner, but over all cleaner and a more efficient process.

We need to be careful when discussing the "clean" factor of burning ethanol. By itself...ethanol is a tad cleaner than burning gasoline...less C02 emissions overall...but it puts out other things...

But many manufacturers and advocates alike are using the net-process to describe how much cleaner it is. This works to their benefit because it skews the debate a little bit (they're not wrong...but it certainly looks a LOT better) But, depending on the source of the ethanol...there is a wide range of "cleaner".

Algae, for instance, nets an 85% or so decrease in emissions from "well to wheel". Why? Because they factor both the C02 absorbed into the plant and the C02 expelled from the burning of the algae-based gasoline or ethanol. These values cancel each other out.

I like this method of thinking, because it's cyclic. Everything in nature is a cycle...and for once, we're (humans) going to do something cyclically, instead of digging up million-year-old crap (that's what it is, essentially...fossil-based petroleum is nature's feces, long flushed) and burning it.

[The Black Stig]

my biggest issue with E85 is that it made my v6 impala get the milage fo a big block...