camaro reliability?

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by camaropete

But can you really compare a luxury sedan to a pretty capable 4x4? Who's to say that the Land Rover owners aren't out in the woods with their vehicles?

I merely picked the best and worst to show the lack of a dependability gap. But since you brought up off roading, only around 10% of SUV buyers take their vehicles off road. I imagine that percentage goes up with Jeeps and down with Hummers and Land Rovers.

[wjones14]

There was a documentary on CNBC last month named "Saving General Motors" featuring GM's Bob Lutz. It was really impressive, and was all about Lutz's plan to emphasize quality within GM. If it ever airs again, it should not be missed. After watching the documentary, you can't help but have a lot of faith in Lutz's plan.

Since the '80s, when Lutz admitted that GM quality was at an all-time low (specifically 1982), GM has recognized the problem and has worked hard to correct it. In fact, all of the American automakers have realized that if they didn't correct the quality issues, they would soon be out of business.

I've owned a lot of cars in my life, and the 2005 Mustang GT is the best car I have ever owned in terms of quality. It has 35K miles now after 3-1/2 years, and still has not been back to the dealer for a single issue, not even a minor issue. Nothing, not a single problem since the car was new. I'm sure that the Camaro will be equally reliable. It has to be, because consumers will no longer settle for second-rate quality.

[theholycow]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

I was just on JD Power's website and for dependability

I've cited JD Power's numbers in similar threads before, too, but the real problem with them is that they don't mean anything about how long a vehicle will last. JD Power, Consumer Reports, and others studying/reporting on reliability usually only bother with the first few years of a vehicle's life.

For some people, that's fine. Lots of people only intend to keep it for a few years, and they want to make sure it won't give them problems and will be easy to sell.

However, for people wanting to keep a vehicle for ten or more years and put on hundreds of thousands of miles, it's more difficult to get information. Mostly you can get anecdotes/hearsay/reputations, which tend to conflict from one person to the next. For example, I posted my anecdotes above regarding the 6 year/200,000 mile dependability of a 2002 Toyota Tundra vs. a similarly equipped 2002 GMC Sierra.

I know there must be decent studies of long-term repair costs/downtime/reliability satisfaction...I just don't know where they are. I think I've seen some in Consumer Reports but I've found that Consumer Reports tends to be inaccurate -- their methodology is about as perfect as Mythbusters.

[theholycow]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

Would those Toyota problems have included the drive shaft breaking, random acceleration, or the camshaft snapping? I assume you're Dad bought a Tundra?

Yes, it is a 2002 Tundra, and no, those weren't the problems. The one that I remember most was the failed ball joint which was recalled. He was Just Driving Along when the wheel snapped off, turned flat against the ground, and was dragged under the truck.

Luckily, he was not on the highway; luckily, it turned flat; and luckily it landed under structural frame pieces instead of less robust stuff. If it had stayed upright and rolled under the truck, the truck would almost surely have flipped over. If he was going faster, it would have caused a bad accident regardless of its orientation.

Those other problems you mentioned aren't exactly loads of fun either. Random acceleration = danger. Drive shaft breaking = roadside breakdown, and depending how it breaks, it could pole vault the truck (I've heard of it happening, though it might require a solid steel driveshaft and I'd guess it's got a modern hollow aluminum unit). Camshaft snapping = roadside breakdown.

My GMC had a slow oil leak at the rear main seal (IIRC) which was fixed under warranty, and bad tailgate cables. It also had a fuel pump failure at ~120,000 miles, which was the only time the truck let me down.

Unfortunately, each one of those problems is just as important (from a technical standpoint) as a window motor malfunctioning or excessive wind noise.

I'm not sure in what technical context a window motor malfunction is as important as a roadside breakdown or a dangerous failure, but for the buyers it's certainly not.

My tailgate cables snapping from corrosion were a far worse problem -- that risks damage to the tailgate and anything on it, and injury to anyone on or near it. Mine did not get damaged and shortly after my cables were replaced with stainless steel GM sent out a recall (presumably lots of people had the same problem). Even so, if you ask buyers, anyone would rather risk a window malfunction or snapped tailgate cable than a wheel falling off or driveshaft breaking.

If we are going to bring wind noise into this, then what else is also valid for reliability? 4wd that goes clunk? Engine that is rough, loud, and sounds kinda like a mack truck despite proper maintenance and nothing being really wrong? These things and many others are how the Toyota aged. Durability of the bed? You'd think a truck designed to carry loads wouldn't have its bed front and tailgate easily bent by a moderate load, but a sliding load bent his bed front almost all the way to the cab and his tailgate out at least an inch in the center (and the seams at the ends opened up). The GMC holds up better.

The GMC remains smooth and quiet, though the front differential started making noise (when in 4wd) last winter after I was stuck in snow once and I was pretty pissed off, I really abused it.

[DGthe3]

The technical context is that a malfunction is a malfunction, no matter how important it may be to the operation of the vehicle or your life. THAT is a serious issue with things like JD power when the report that Brand X has 182 problems per 100 vehicles. Was it a power seat that wouldn't move or was it a gas tank that explodes? Either way its only 1 problem, but one could kill you and the other is a minor inconvenience that many may not notice.

[theholycow]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

The technical context is that a malfunction is a malfunction, [...] with things like JD power

OIC...yet another flaw in using that type of data to decide on reliability.

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by theholycow

I've cited JD Power's numbers in similar threads before, too, but the real problem with them is that they don't mean anything about how long a vehicle will last. JD Power, Consumer Reports, and others studying/reporting on reliability usually only bother with the first few years of a vehicle's life.

That's because the longer the vehicle is owned and maintained (or not maintained) the harder it gets to determine how long it will last, like you said.

For instance, there's been a few recent 1,000,000 GM vehicles (one of them a second gen Camaro)...but I'll bet you that those people maintained their vehicles brilliantly! After the first 3-5 years, it becomes totally maintinance-based. Something nearly unmeasureable because it varies from person to person.

[10redrocket]

By the way the engineers were talking they want to build a world class car. Something that others look at and say damn, we have to compete with that!

The same was true for the new Malibu, if you can go to the dealer and take a test ride, preferrably in the LTZ. If you know someone who has one better yet, take it for a drive. The quality is unreal!

The Malibu is by far the best built car I've driven so far!

And I drive a lot as my job consists of travelling around the country, in brand new rentals. So I've driven many different brands in differing trim levels.

I have no dought that the Camaro will be on par if not better than the Malibu.

Add-Ons, As long as they are from GM performance and installed by the dealer, they will not void the warranty.
I did this with my CobaltSS.

[CaptianSam]

im curious to know of gm reliability of past camaros any good stories ...?
will the 5th gen be good enough for winter reliability...(no to be confused with winter driving)
how about... if you go over a speed bump the wrong way or hit a raccoon will your alignment be retarded... ive never owned any new gm cars
but the trucks have been great, the catera has been very good as well
how expensive are oem parts, cosmetic and mechanical.
tune ups and lube...

[Jim_McC]

I wrecked my SUV last winter and had to drive my CETA Trans AM for awhile. It had no problems as long as the snow wasn't to deep. When I was a teenager I had an 82 Z-28 it was my only car so I drove it year round slid over a curb into someones yard once drove back out with no damage no alignment probs got lucky I guess. Same car I was running down hi-way hit black ice spun around into ditch drove out got some grass stuck in tires but no major car problems. I don't know if I helped at all but I am 29 and have been driving f-body's since I was 15. My mom got knocked up with me in the back of a 74 SD Trans Am my dad used to street race. So I guess I have been around them all my life. Right now I have 4 in my garage 3 of my own 2 4th gen, 1 2nd gen and 1 3rd gen I am painting for my brother.

[kanys]

While no one can say for certain, I have confidence that the 5th Gen will be extremely reliable consideing that is one of the top priorities in auto manufacturing and the fact it is being produced in the Oshowa plant, a very respectable factory. As far as older Camaros go, I cannot say from personal experience, but there have been many people on this site make note of how long their Camaros lasted, so I would say that the 2010 is coming from good genes!

[camaro5]

I heavily researched reliability of cars Oshawa makes now, and the plant in general.

They have won a ton of initial quality awards. They are as good or better than U.S. built import brands, like Honda of Ohio.

Google them up if you want more info, it's reassurring.

[Angrybird 12]

Originally Posted by CaptianSam

im curious to know of gm reliability of past camaros any good stories ...?
will the 5th gen be good enough for winter reliability...(no to be confused with winter driving)
how about... if you go over a speed bump the wrong way or hit a raccoon will your alignment be retarded... ive never owned any new gm cars
but the trucks have been great, the catera has been very good as well
how expensive are oem parts, cosmetic and mechanical.
tune ups and lube...

I have never had a GM car that had any problem like that. Have you had any other cars like that.? Maybe if you hit the speed bump doing 70 it may do something, LOL

Parts costs are usually less with a Chevrolet that a comparable car, but to me they are all too expensive to buy parts for.

[Hylton]

I have total confidence in my 2001 SS. Everything is good except for the power window motors.