Ready or not: 36 MPG by 2015 mandate from Feds

[GMRULZ]

Originally Posted by LS1_Alex

Don't mean to be rude at all but that mpg gauge can often be innacurate. I've been in a few cars and the real mpg is always less. You really need to look at your real world milage. When you go on a long trip fill it up and after 100-200 miles of driving fill it up again and calculate the real milage. Betcha it will be around 28-30mpg (which is still awesome) Most people don't believe me when I tell em I get 27mpg (freeway) with my 420rwh firebird.

No your not being rude at all. Thats always good to point out. My Durango is like that it will read 19.2 at 60mph w/ the cruise set, but between fillups, I have checked it on trips it will get between 17-18. The Vette computer on the other hand is suprisingly accurate. Last trip I took long distance in the Vette the computer said 32.2, and when I did the calculation it was 32.0. This was with a year and a half dirty Honker air filter, I just cleaned it before this last short interstate trip and the mileage went up. Remember the car is very light being a vette, and its a 1LT car which is the lightest version. Plus the car is tuned for optimal performance, Honker CAI, headers, high flow cats, self ported intake, stock internals, all things that help fuel economy, if you keep your foot out of it anyways. Not to mention I live in southeast VA where the land is flat and near sea level, w/ out traffic problems you can set the cruise and see what she will get.

Also I`d like to point out the 36mpg cafe is best case, ie...controlled conditions flat surface, no a/c going ect...Real world will almost always be less, especially if you live in a hilly area. But the 36mpg will be best case.

By the way dang nice mileage w/ a cam!

[GMRULZ]

Originally Posted by radz282003

I say if you want to buy that big 'ole heavy truck or whatever, be prepared to pay the price. .

For sure. I for one don`t complain about gas prices. I can afford to pay them. So my big ole heavy truck when I get rid of it in 2 years will be replaced w/ an eaven heavier Tahoe...Lol..My Durango is set up for the beach, I like to drive right up to the water, pop the hatch and unload the wife and kids right at the water. I have an electrical outlet in the back, I hook up my Jimmy Buffet margarita maker and life is good! Have you ever tried to lug your kids stuff a mile or 2 from the parking place to the beach?

Now don`t get me wrong, I`m all for saving money like the next guy, but even at 6 bucks a gallon I`m still going to drive the kind of vehicles I want to. That is if they still make them at that price...l:(

However, there is no reason a sports car/ muscle car should weigh 4k lbs, or even close to it, thats just d@mn ridiculous. Imho..

[LS1_Alex]

Originally Posted by GMRULZ

No your not being rude at all. Thats always good to point out. My Durango is like that it will read 19.2 at 60mph w/ the cruise set, but between fillups, I have checked it on trips it will get between 17-18. The Vette computer on the other hand is suprisingly accurate. Last trip I took long distance in the Vette the computer said 32.2, and when I did the calculation it was 32.0.

That's pretty damn awesome. Almost as good as my 4cyl sunfire in fact.. Kind of upsetting actually I get a max of 36pmg on the freeway with it, if they only put in a tall 6th gear I bet it would get over 40mpg. 3000rpm at 75 is rediculous.

[stovt001]

Originally Posted by GMRULZ

Also I`d like to point out the 36mpg cafe is best case, ie...controlled conditions flat surface, no a/c going ect...Real world will almost always be less, especially if you live in a hilly area. But the 36mpg will be best case.

Also, CAFE mileage is calculated differently than even the EPA sticker estimate. So 36 mpg isn't as big of a jump as it initially appears. Yes it will still be hard and will probably change the automotive market, but some people may mistake it for being worse than it is.

[Wedgy]

ok, just a few points I want to make...

1. its not the price of gas or diesels thats going up. its the price of OIL, and oil is used for many things other than gas for cars.

2. prices of oil are not going up because of how much oil America is using, or that the oil companies are raising prices for the fun of it. China and India are using far more oil as their economies grow, and will soon pass the US in demand for it. Its called supply and demand people...

3. America is suppose to be a capitalist nation... oil companies are entitled to make money... if every car on the road gets 50 MPG, they will produce less gas because their is less demand, and prices will continue to go up because others will be happy to buy the oil we don't use... see point #2

4. alternative fuels suck... it takes something like 2 units of fossil fuel to produce 3 units of ethanol. Similar problem with electric cars, how do you think the power is produced to charge the car... fossil fuel. And bio diesels is only cheep because hardly anyone uses it, and when they do start using it on a large scale the price will shoot up... again, supply and demand.

Dont get me wrong I'm not trying to be all doom and gloom, im just realistic.
what I don't like is the fed mandating anything in privet industry. it called a slippery slope. whats next, the feds mandating that all passenger cars be speed limited to 65 mph, or what about a gps tracking system that sends your speed info to the cops and auto sends you a ticket.

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by Wedgy

4. alternative fuels suck... it takes something like 2 units of fossil fuel to produce 3 units of ethanol. Similar problem with electric cars, how do you think the power is produced to charge the car... fossil fuel.

Is that Corn Ethanol you're talking about? (I'm just trying to clarify)

Then, on your electricity point: does it not take the burning of fossil fuels to make gasoline, too? Except when you make gasoline...you have to burn it again to use it. Double dipping, and worse than electricity.

Not arguing...but playing the devil's advocate, I guess.

[Muscle Master]

Originally Posted by radz282003

I think this is going to be near impossible for the automakers to achieve with the current demand customers expect, especially for trucks, IMHO. Smaller engines and lighter trucks seem like the way it's going to have to go. Personally, I could almost give a crap about emissions, because I don't subscribe to the theory that emissions are causing global warming and don't think they are related, so for me, the benefit is completely at the pump and for the wallet.

Get your V8s while you still can...

I say the hell with the gov. if they ban v8's I just buy an acceptable ride and put a custom v8 in it, screw it if the cops want to challenge me in their hybrids’ they better have numbers I mean it , how does the u.s. complain about the price of crude oil and we pay for it because of taxes I think us people have a say in it, and another thing isn’t oil a big part of our economy if we find other fuel sources that means we be buying less oil from over seas what then?

As for global warming it is happening but I think it’s a natural occurrence

[Wedgy]

yes I'm talking about corn ethanol...

And yes I guess it dose take fossil fuels to make gasoline, but its far more efficiant then the production of ethanol.

the other point that I'm trying to make is that an electric car still pollutes the air and drive prices of other fuel. its the "as long as its not in my backyard" mentality, and just as long as the uninformed tree huggers can feel good about them selfs.

[Mythic]

You do realize though the "cost" in fuels and pollution to make the electricity to power the Volt or the Tesla is less than the gas an pollution they would use/generate if they burned the fuel directly..

http://www.altfuels.org/backgrnd/alt...ectricity.html

[The_Stache]

Serveral things i want to address here...

Originally Posted by Wedgy

the other point that I'm trying to make is that an electric car still pollutes the air and drive prices of other fuel. its the "as long as its not in my backyard" mentality, and just as long as the uninformed tree huggers can feel good about them selfs.

Let me just find the study that California did that said if every car in cali was electric, they would need to build 11 more electric plants, and even if they where coal it would still reduce pollution by 60%, Give me some time I gotta dig through my college papers.

Originally Posted by GMRULZ

However, there is no reason a sports car/ muscle car should weigh 4k lbs, or even close to it, thats just d@mn ridiculous. Imho..

Guess you have no clue about safety regs as well as crash standards and such. Do you think that if DCX could have reduced the weight and in turn given everyone a better fuel economy they wouldnt have? Dude get rational, If the chally/charger/300 was 3200lbs and got upper 20's low 30's MPG they would sell faster than almost any car on the market, and EVERYONE knows that. SO its not possible with todays regulations, you need that "weight" for airbags, crumple zones, side impact bracing, ECT, ECT.

The major problem i have with this is that the Government wants to be all happy happy about safety, more safety and yet even more safety becuase you can never have too much, thus adding to the weight of cars. And then turns around and says weight/physics be damned you will increase MPG's.

THEN THE TREEHUGGERS come in and say, well gas MPG hasn't improved since 1990. and tosses up a graph to prove it.. and on the surface its true.. BUT IT HAS, we have just added weight until each improvement cancels each other out..

[stovt001]

This is why I'm moving to within blocks of work next year (added bonus, free fireworks every night at 9, and walking distance to our very nice shopping center and the new one being built across the street) and van-pooling until then. $60 a month to use a company maintained van, not have to drive all the time, and $50 of that pre-tax? The solution isn't alternative fuels, its alternative transportation and lifestyles.

[Wedgy]

Originally Posted by diarmadhi

Let me just find the study that California did that said if every car in cali was electric, they would need to build 11 more electric plants, and even if they where coal it would still reduce pollution by 60%, Give me some time I gotta dig through my college papers.

For every study there is another study to counter it.

Lets just say that every car was electric, and they did build 11 more power plants.

1. I wouldn't want to see a power bill after that. Im just guessing that new power plants don't come cheep. and you know the power companies would pass that cost along. not to mention the environmental impact the new power plants would have, coal burning or otherwise.

2. what do you do with the mass amounts of batteries that will pile up from dead electric cars.

3. coal doesn't just jump up out of the ground into a power plant. it take lots and lots of trucks burning oil to get the coal to make that happen.then there is the environmental fallout from the coal mine its self.

the point I'm trying to make is that its not about the environment, its about money. and the bottom line is that we are totally dependent on fossil fuels now and for the foreseeable future. and we will all have to pay out the nose to fill our tanks.

[The_Stache]

Originally Posted by Wedgy

For every study there is another study to counter it.

Lets just say that every car was electric, and they did build 11 more power plants.

1. I wouldn't want to see a power bill after that. Im just guessing that new power plants don't come cheep. and you know the power companies would pass that cost along. not to mention the environmental impact the new power plants would have, coal burning or otherwise.

2. what do you do with the mass amounts of batteries that will pile up from dead electric cars.

3. coal doesn't just jump up out of the ground into a power plant. it take lots and lots of trucks burning oil to get the coal to make that happen.then there is the environmental fallout from the coal mine its self.

the point I'm trying to make is that its not about the environment, its about money. and the bottom line is that we are totally dependent on fossil fuels now and for the foreseeable future. and we will all have to pay out the nose to fill our tanks.

I see your point and really I agree with it, for me its all about the money, But for a large number of americans, they see foreign oil as a reason to why they pay too much money, and in all reality that is not the case. Americans are spoiled with cheap gas prices that are now making there way up to world standards. Economically gas will continue to be the cheapest souce of mobile energy until the WORLD average gas price is almost $10.00 a gallon. Americans just need to find alternative TRANSPORTATION like mindz is saying.

Personally I'm going two wheeled for my commute, and then have the camaro for the weekend/special occasions.

[GMRULZ]

Originally Posted by diarmadhi

Guess you have no clue about safety regs as well as crash standards and such. Do you think that if DCX could have reduced the weight and in turn given everyone a better fuel economy they wouldnt have? Dude get rational, If the chally/charger/300 was 3200lbs and got upper 20's low 30's MPG they would sell faster than almost any car on the market, and EVERYONE knows that. SO its not possible with todays regulations, you need that "weight" for airbags, crumple zones, side impact bracing, ECT, ECT.

The major problem i have with this is that the Government wants to be all happy happy about safety, more safety and yet even more safety becuase you can never have too much, thus adding to the weight of cars. And then turns around and says weight/physics be damned you will increase MPG's.

THEN THE TREEHUGGERS come in and say, well gas MPG hasn't improved since 1990. and tosses up a graph to prove it.. and on the surface its true.. BUT IT HAS, we have just added weight until each improvement cancels each other out..

Well, actually, I work in the Insurance industry and have been to here: http://www.iihs.org/ and watched them crash a car as well as watched dummy`s on a large slingshot machine to test whiplash ect... So I do actually know a thing or 2 about safety regs. You are just taking the industry exscuse that everybody regurgatates. There of course is some validity to your point of more weight due to safety regs, the main problem however is they think we all want these huge cars packed full of so many options that the queen mary pales by comparisson. That is the biggest issue. For instance why does the Solstice weigh 2860 but the Mazda Miata weighs 2445? Thats 400lbs...They both are supposedly small 2 door convert sports cars w/ 4cl engines.

The Camaro did not need to be the size it is. They should have developed Zeta to be smaller or perhaps put camaro on a different platform.. Oh well they didn`t and we have a big Camaro, which," keep your fingers crossed" hopefully won`t be over 3700lbs.

There are many small cars that do very well in the crash tests and are not heavy. My Vette is 3152lbs the solstce GXP 4cl turbo is 2976lbs. The Vette is a lot more car w/ a steel Full Frame. They can build them light when they want too. You see Vette people would not put up w/ a porker of a Vette. GM knows it and its light for what it is. The 350z which is about the same size is about 300lbs heavier.

I`m w/ ya on the treehuggers, they piss me off too!

This is my favorite shirt: http://www.kockyproducts.com/ go to gm products and it is the 2nd shirt about hybrid cars....