RiderGraphix - AVOID

[live2well]

Originally Posted by Moonsault

Again, I can account for the ability of the installer. However, this is neither here nor there. As I mentioned, there is NO way these stripes could be applied to look like the implied graphic. It would make no difference if I did it personally, my installer did it, Mr Rider did it, or anybody on the face of this earth did it. My point is they do not install straight. Yes, there has to be a slight curve to the design to account for the contours of the hood. But there is NO way you can install them and have two perfectly parallel and equal width spaced stripes. Take a look at his graphic of the stripes and imagine how they will fit when laid onto the hood with the large central bulge - it is only going to amplify the outer curve of the stripe regardless.

We did discover there was a mistake with the spoiler stripe - it was too wide to correctly line up. So who is to say that the design of the hood stripe is not flawed which accounts for the over-curvature and the spacing? I am not trying to bash Mr Rider's technical design ability (as he is clearly very talented) but this is how it is.

I am just trying to get my money back and move on as this is stressing me out and is just piling upon my overall disappointment and frustration. I have further in the last several hours been called an impatient prick and slammed for even bringing this up. The truth is after waiting so long for this car I wanted it to be perfect. I hope others can sympathise with this. And I have spent $600+ on stripes, and then installation, and all I have is drama and stripes that aren't working out. Can you imagine how I feel?

I would just like to have a refund, close this door and move on, and as I have never once used derogative language against anybody else I would appreciate it if others would do the same. I do not relish being called an impatient prick thank you, and I am sure you would not either.

MoonSault,

I can understand your position and frustration. But YOU attacked Rider in your initial post. You said your installer said the vinyl was poor quality and the cut was incorrect.

Let address the cut first. I will give you the benefit of the doubt. The graphic was cut wrong. Rider has offered to send a replacement free of charge. Sounds like a reasonable and fair solution. I say this because you said you wanted the stripes on your car and you will have them on your car with the replacement graphics.

Now lets address the quality. YOUR installer is dead wrong!!! I had Riders vinyl installed on my front windshield of my Charger for 2 1/2 years. It was my first install and I followed the direction. I had no problems with it. The vinyls have been subjected to the weather of MD for 2 1/2 years. MD gets all four seasons. It gets up to the mid 90s in the Summer and low teens in the Winter. It rains all Spring and the leaves and debris fall in the Autumn. The vinyl was as close a match to my TORRED Charger as it could be. I had NO fading or bleaching of the vinyl. I washed and detailed my car at least once a week during good weather and every other week in bad weather. I had no issues with vinyl.

There are probably many people over at the charger forum that can vouch for the quality of Riders vinyls. Riders customer service is second to none. Ok maybe one but his CS is top notch. I ordered my stuff on a Monday and had my stuff by Wednesday. Not only that, Rider emailed me and let me know when he shipped and when to expect my delivery.

I have to say that you should be a little more selective with your accusations of poor quality. It sounds to me that Rider is doing the right thing by offering to replace what you/your installer call a defect item. If you really wanted them, it would seem to me that this would be a good solution. Hmmmm.

For those of you wondering if you made the right decision to buy from Rider, I would say "yes you did". I have had nothing but GREAT experiences from Ryder and his product.


Here is my car:


[IMG][/IMG]

[TheNetGarage]

Originally Posted by XanthosV6

This is exactly what I was thinking when I saw it. I don't have experience with vinyl on cars, but I do have experience with painting and you get the same issue when you're taping off an area - the tape will stretch, so any straight lines must be done first.
- X

You are 1000% correct, and I have taped off stripes in the past, it is done the same way, except you float the vinyl with solution so it will pull up to adjust, and instead of your finger to affix, you use a squeegee and work outward to remove liquid.

[five-oh]

looking at the hood stripes it appears they are farther apart in the middle of the hood, which makes it looked bowed on the outsides. They don't look like they are in a straight line down the top of the bulge. I'm guessing your installer messed up. It might be an optical illusion on the photo, too. Are the measurements still 6.5" in the middle of the hood?

Originally Posted by Moonsault

Here you go. The stripe is perfectly aligned along the front grill and the hoodline at the windshield. Not only do the stripes get further apart as they come down the hood, they CLEARLY are not the same width from top to bottom. They curve. Not what he shows on his site. The gap between the stripes at the windshield is the correct 6.5 inch spacing. If you pulled the stripes together at the grill to make it 6.5 there the front face of the stripes would be at a horrible angle in relation to the grill as you could imagine (and the stripes would be even LESS straight/parallel). This was the ONLY way to put them on, and as you can see, it's neither great, or what was advertised. Not for that price...

[Supermans]

Originally Posted by Moonsault

Having waited so long to finally receive my car I was pleased to find this merchant (and apparent SEMA member) who could sell me a set of full-length "Bumblebee" style rally stripes to go on my new car. He was happy to take my money and assure me that the stripes would fit no problem.

I had the stripes installed by a local and reputable established installer, who commented that the vinyl used was of the lowest cheapest grade and would not last more than a year or two before cracking and degrading. The kit was also appalling. The front stripes do not install correctly and do not run straight and parallel (unlike the computer graphic on the website). There was no way to install them so they ran straight and true.

The spoiler was a complete disaster, and was impossible to "wrap around" the spoiler. The stripe was slightly wider, apparently to compensate for the curve of the spoiler. Yet the installer insisted this was ridiculous, and the stripe had to be the same width as the deck stripe. He must have been right, as when I contact RiderGraphix about this they admitted they had to go and "re-measure". The whole kit was cheap and shoddy.

However, RiderGraphix was more than happy to take MORE of my money for replacement stripes, which arrived quickly. I aimed to remove the originals and try again, hoping for a better kit. Firstly I was sent the wrong hood stripes, despite assurances that I would be sent the same set as the first ones I ordered. Then when I went to have the stripes installed again, the installer refused to even touch them. He said it was an insult to a beautiful car to put cheap vinyl back on them, and did not want to be responsible for when it quickly degraded.

RiderGraphix conveniently has no contact phone number or return mail address on his site, and does not answer my emails anymore.

He will take no responsibility for this and simply wants to walk away with my money.

PayPal is useless in this case, so I am contacting my bank regarding the money, and I have forwarded a full report to SEMA. I thought I could trust this seller, as he proudly has the SEMA member emblem emblazed on his home page. Apparently not.

I am posting this as a warning to other prospective buyers. Once this guy has your money you are on your own. Even if he sends you the wrong product you are screwed. Please learn from my mistake.

I have given him ample opportunity to try to resolve this with me, but he now chooses to ignore my emails. Since he has my money I obviously do not merit his time.

So in conclusion, he has screwed money out of me for TWO sets of stripes, both of which are useless, and he will not accept a return of the unused stripes OR compensation for the first set which were incorrectly manufactured.

BE CAREFUL with this guy. He is all smiles and charms until he gets your money, then you're on your own. I would hope this report might inspire him to refund my money, but after everything so far I doubt he has the integrity.

Caveat Emptor. Shop elsewhere guys..

can anybody confirm or deny these allegations?

[Supermans]

Originally Posted by autoguy

I haven't been sending it out and replacing it. I replaced the rear piece that I admitted needed to be changed. He purchased a second set of hood stripes because he told me himself he was not happy with the job the installer did. If I sent the wrong ones to him (which has not even been addressed yet), I am offering to send a replacement set of hood stripes. It is not a matter of the cost of the vinyl. I am merely trying to do the right thing and send him the right pieces if he claims they are wrong.

I offered to send these without even seeing or having the supposedly wrong ones sent back. What more needs to be done in order to avoid a public Lynching?

There needs to be a line between customer service and a customer recognizing who is in the wrong like Adam said above. It is all too easy for an installer to screw up and since they did not provide the kit, it is not their problem.

After reading your responses, I want to know if there are installers in the Miami area that you know and can recommend to install your stripes..

[2010SLVRBULIT]

Originally Posted by buster6070

Kinda 50/50 I think. If his installer screwed up the first set then that's his fault. And if he's willing to send the second set back then refund his money for one set and keep the money for the first set that was damaged by the installer. And the customer isn't always right, but sometimes you just give them their money back so they'll leave you alone. Good luck to both parties

If installer screwed up, the customer deals with the installer, not the manufacturer...

[Matster]

OK, I too purchased the "Bumble Bee" stripes from Rider Graphix. The only problem I had was with the rear spoiler stripes being too wide. In all fairness, I have not sent anything to Autoguy regarding this problem as my installer is going to make the rear spoiler stripes from scratch. As for the hood stripes, well see the pics below, you be the judge. I think they look fine, but I guess that is in the eye of the beholder. Put it this way, no one has found any fault with them or the way they look.

I did, however also purchase the rear deck black out kit which ended up in the garbage. The measurements were off just enough that it wasn't acceptable. The piece between the tail lights which has the Chevy Emblem cut out could not be centered properly. When placed over the emblem it was about 3/8" too short on one side and of course too long on the other. The bumper potion seemed to suffer from the same problem with the dimensions just being off ever so slightly that the alignment was off. Again, I have not sent anything to Autoguy regarding this matter. After seeing it on the car, I decided that I didn't want the rear deck blacked out anyway.

I will most likely wait 3-5 years and remove the vinyl and have the stripes painted on, I just couldn't bring myself to paint a brand new car.

Sorry Autoguy, I really intended to send you a PM to let you know about the problems more so as a heads up rather than looking for anything in return or refund. I am posting this up as I don't think that this attack is fair or justified. If the rear spoiler width issue has been addressed, then I really have no complaints about the appearance of this package and in the hands of the "RIGHT" installer I think it looks really good...again that is just my opinion for what ever that is worth.

[Ristaze]

It all sounds fishy to me. From all the disscusions it seams like the Installer didn't know what he was doing. It sounds like this thing played itself out over a couple of days. It's not right slamming someone and hurting his buisness because he didn't answer your email within 5 minutes. If the guys products were crap, this is not the only post you would see about him.

Maybe moonsaults new car payments are hurting right now and really needs the money back.

[calflan]

Originally Posted by 2010SLVRBULIT

If installer screwed up, the customer deals with the installer, not the manufacturer...

EXACTLY.

Why is the installer able to bash the product after he COMPLETED installation and the owner is not satisfied ? Could he not see the way the install was going before he got halfway or three quarters down the hood ? Would'nt a float solution have allowed him to mainpulate the stripes to try to make up for the gaps ? If the gaps were unable to be avoided, why did he just complete the install and deliver the car with what you've now got ? Seems he would have a fair amount of responsibility here as well.

If work is being done on a house, car, anything and the builder or mechanic runs into a problem, don't they usually call and say 'I have a problem with the material or product you've provided me to install' ?

The installer claims to be capable, but just as Graphics is bashed for selling a poor product, the installer takes no responsibility ?

If I was doing the install and saw problems that could'nt be corrected, I believe I'd stop and ship them back so Graphix could either advise if they were a bad cut, installation technique, etc. That way you'd have known whether you wanted to go on with this product or get a refund and go elsewhere. As you've pointed out, the cost of these stripes are not somethiong you want to just keep buying until they look good.

If Graphix is willing to replace the stripes, I'd take another set AND have the installer pick up any costs outside of the first set. At the end of the deal, you've paid for one set, you get the second set done elsewhere and you're out only the original cost of one set. Bottom line here is, may not be a wanted solution for the installer, but all he is out is labor, while Graphix is out a loss of material and expense for product - twice, if he gave refund; once if he gave a replacement set.

Moon you've not responded to Net Garage's outline of the installation procedure. Did your installer use a 'float' solution and do the install as outlined ? If not I'd sure be asking why.

Your responses seem a bit protective of the installer. If he's a friend or whatever your reason for standing behind his work, you might need to step back and look at his work objectively rather than from the position you do now. You also used 2 installers I believe (first guy did not do second set ??). If that's the case, why is that first installer not liable here ?? He screwed the pooch and walks away ?

If there are enough satisfied customers on this forum with Graphix products, I'd say you're barking up the wrong tree. It's easy to go chase the internet guy, when you don't really know, deal often or see him round town as you might the installer.

Graphix - I hope this situation educates you on install procedure outline for customers. As stated here by live2well, you provide clear installation procedures for buyers, etc. and appear to try to make it as satisfactory as possible for a good install, but I'd be adding a disclaimer to your sales slips.
"Graphix cannot be held responsible for installations done without use of outlined installation procdure" - or something along those lines. This would add confidence in every product you send out and cover your costs for poor installs by incapable shops, you may be expected to be liable.

Good luck guys.

[live2well]

Originally Posted by calflan

EXACTLY.

Why is the installer able to bash the product after he COMPLETED installation and the owner is not satisfied ? Could he not see the way the install was going before he got halfway or three quarters down the hood ? Would'nt a float solution have allowed him to mainpulate the stripes to try to make up for the gaps ? If the gaps were unable to be avoided, why did he just complete the install and deliver the car with what you've now got ? Seems he would have a fair amount of responsibility here as well.

If work is being done on a house, car, anything and the builder or mechanic runs into a problem, don't they usually call and say 'I have a problem with the material or product you've provided me to install' ?

The installer claims to be capable, but just as Graphics is bashed for selling a poor product, the installer takes no responsibility ?

If I was doing the install and saw problems that could'nt be corrected, I believe I'd stop and ship them back so Graphix could either advise if they were a bad cut, installation technique, etc. That way you'd have known whether you wanted to go on with this product or get a refund and go elsewhere. As you've pointed out, the cost of these stripes are not somethiong you want to just keep buying until they look good.

If Graphix is willing to replace the stripes, I'd take another set AND have the installer pick up any costs outside of the first set. At the end of the deal, you've paid for one set, you get the second set done elsewhere and you're out only the original cost of one set. Bottom line here is, may not be a wanted solution for the installer, but all he is out is labor, while Graphix is out a loss of material and expense for product - twice, if he gave refund; once if he gave a replacement set.

Moon you've not responded to Net Garage's outline of the installation procedure. Did your installer use a 'float' solution and do the install as outlined ? If not I'd sure be asking why.

Your responses seem a bit protective of the installer. If he's a friend or whatever your reason for standing behind his work, you might need to step back and look at his work objectively rather than from the position you do now. You also used 2 installers I believe (first guy did not do second set ??). If that's the case, why is that first installer not liable here ?? He screwed the pooch and walks away ?

If there are enough satisfied customers on this forum with Graphix products, I'd say you're barking up the wrong tree. It's easy to go chase the internet guy, when you don't really know, deal often or see him round town as you might the installer.

Graphix - I hope this situation educates you on install procedure outline for customers. As stated here by live2well, you provide clear installation procedures for buyers, etc. and appear to try to make it as satisfactory as possible for a good install, but I'd be adding a disclaimer to your sales slips.
"Graphix cannot be held responsible for installations done without use of outlined installation procdure" - or something along those lines. This would add confidence in every product you send out and cover your costs for poor installs by incapable shops, you may be expected to be liable.

Good luck guys.

Calflan,

This disclaimer is already on the instructions.....

[Moonsault]

Originally Posted by live2well

Calflan,

This disclaimer is already on the instructions.....

True, but it also says satisfaction 100% guarenteed.

My installer did everything he possibly could. He mixed up the exact application solution from Rider's instructions and applied it correctly. He DID also use blue marking tape to lay out where the stripes should be applied, including the correct 6.5 inch gap down the centre. The stripes were applied from the top (windshield) of the hood is indicated in the instructions and were worked on, again, following the instructions. Sadly as the stripe worked down the hood it started to curve out from the blue tape down the centre which inidicated the application line. The stripes do have a slight curve to them anyway, but when the stripe was edged back to centre to meet the line the outer curve became overly exagerated. There was no way to make the stripe meet the layout lines, and even with the indicated wet application using the correct solution there was not enough play in the vinyl to do it.

So he asked me what did I want to do, and we decided on a compromise. The stripes do slightly get further apart as they run down the hood which minimises the outer curve. If we had kept the 6.5 consistant all the way down the hood that curve you can see in my photo would have been a LOT worse. The stripe would have been wider at the windshield and curved down almost in a V shape to the nose. We just could not get it to fit straight, true and parallel, with equal width stripes. In hindsight I should have photographed the installation, with the guide tape on the car at the same time.

Finally, just to clarify my comments about quality. Please forgive my ignorance. I know nothing about vinyl, so when two different companies, both with many years in the industry told me that the vinyl would not last and was poor quality I had to take their word for it. I guess time would be the true test of telling, but as I said I have no knowledge of this material or technique, so I would take the word of a professional. Sadly, they said if I left the stripes on the car by the time it did start to decay it would be too late as when removed I would have "lines" in the paint finish.

If other members have had successful installations and the stripes have held out you have my envy and congratulations. I WISH my car had gone smoothly without a hitch and I couldn't be happier with what was sitting in the driveway, but it did not go smoothly. And it has been a lot of stress and somewhat heartache. I have not been rude to anybody here, and have only tried to explain in as much detail what happened, to hopefully avoid it happening again.

I have said everything I think I can say, so at this point I will take a step back. After everything that has happened and I have been told I am going to move away from vinyl stripes and have them painting down the road once I recouperate enough money.

I hope RiderGraphix will refund my money for the two sets of stripes, as installation was followed to the letter, and they do not match the indicated graphic (do not run straight, parallel and equal width).

And finally, I will apologize to RiderGraphix for any negativity that you have incurred as a result of my report. Trust me, I have received a lot of abuse for my trouble (I do not relish being called a prick on a public forum). I did not mean to come across as impatient, but when I recieved no answers I did feel like I was getting the cold shoulder, so my initial post may have been written in the heat of the moment, so again, I apologize. I wish you nothing but the best.

[autoguy]

Originally Posted by Supermans

After reading your responses, I want to know if there are installers in the Miami area that you know and can recommend to install your stripes..

No, I do not have a list of recommended installers, and after this ordeal, I would NEVER recommend anyone if I am the one that is going to be held responsible for someone else's poor quality work. Most of our customers use a local body shop or window tint shop with great results. There are times like these, where a poor installation is blamed on the product. It is just a CYA for the incompetent installer.

All I can tell you is that we have sold thousands of graphics kits, and the only time there is ever an issue is when a third party is involved. We have many customers that do their own installations with great results as well!!.

[autoguy]

Originally Posted by Ristaze

It all sounds fishy to me. From all the disscusions it seams like the Installer didn't know what he was doing. It sounds like this thing played itself out over a couple of days. It's not right slamming someone and hurting his buisness because he didn't answer your email within 5 minutes. If the guys products were crap, this is not the only post you would see about him.

Maybe moonsaults new car payments are hurting right now and really needs the money back.

Thank You.

[autoguy]

Originally Posted by Moonsault

True, but it also says satisfaction 100% guarenteed.

My installer did everything he possibly could. He mixed up the exact application solution from Rider's instructions and applied it correctly. He DID also use blue marking tape to lay out where the stripes should be applied, including the correct 6.5 inch gap down the centre. The stripes were applied from the top (windshield) of the hood is indicated in the instructions and were worked on, again, following the instructions. Sadly as the stripe worked down the hood it started to curve out from the blue tape down the centre which inidicated the application line. The stripes do have a slight curve to them anyway, but when the stripe was edged back to centre to meet the line the outer curve became overly exagerated. There was no way to make the stripe meet the layout lines, and even with the indicated wet application using the correct solution there was not enough play in the vinyl to do it.

So he asked me what did I want to do, and we decided on a compromise. The stripes do slightly get further apart as they run down the hood which minimises the outer curve. If we had kept the 6.5 consistant all the way down the hood that curve you can see in my photo would have been a LOT worse. The stripe would have been wider at the windshield and curved down almost in a V shape to the nose. We just could not get it to fit straight, true and parallel, with equal width stripes. In hindsight I should have photographed the installation, with the guide tape on the car at the same time.

Finally, just to clarify my comments about quality. Please forgive my ignorance. I know nothing about vinyl, so when two different companies, both with many years in the industry told me that the vinyl would not last and was poor quality I had to take their word for it. I guess time would be the true test of telling, but as I said I have no knowledge of this material or technique, so I would take the word of a professional. Sadly, they said if I left the stripes on the car by the time it did start to decay it would be too late as when removed I would have "lines" in the paint finish.

If other members have had successful installations and the stripes have held out you have my envy and congratulations. I WISH my car had gone smoothly without a hitch and I couldn't be happier with what was sitting in the driveway, but it did not go smoothly. And it has been a lot of stress and somewhat heartache. I have not been rude to anybody here, and have only tried to explain in as much detail what happened, to hopefully avoid it happening again.

I have said everything I think I can say, so at this point I will take a step back. After everything that has happened and I have been told I am going to move away from vinyl stripes and have them painting down the road once I recouperate enough money.

I hope RiderGraphix will refund my money for the two sets of stripes, as installation was followed to the letter, and they do not match the indicated graphic (do not run straight, parallel and equal width).

And finally, I will apologize to RiderGraphix for any negativity that you have incurred as a result of my report. Trust me, I have received a lot of abuse for my trouble (I do not relish being called a prick on a public forum). I did not mean to come across as impatient, but when I recieved no answers I did feel like I was getting the cold shoulder, so my initial post may have been written in the heat of the moment, so again, I apologize. I wish you nothing but the best.

Nothing was ever said of the hard time aligning the stripes on the first set of hood stripes. If there was an issue, I should have been contacted PRIOR to the stripes being installed. At the time you and the installer "decided on a compromise", was when you committed to installing them and not to contact me.

If we were selling junk, we would not have a 1000+ plus positive feedback with our ebay sales, and countless other non ebay customers that are very satisfied. We also have many repeat customers and dealer customers with NO issues whatsoever.

This is an isolated case with a customer and installer that does not understand the installation process and the material being dealt with. He has admitted it himself, only after making accusations and negative comments.

These Hood Stripes were perfectly fine in the beginning. The only issue he had was that there were too many bubbles in them (Installer caused issue) and he was not sure if he was happy with the results. He then decided to purchase ANOTHER set of Hood Stripes because he wanted to have a DIFFERENT installer do the job because he was not happy with the first INSTALLATION JOB. NOT the product. The second installer then refused to do the installation (Probably due to the fact the he was not capable of doing it properly) and bashing the quality of the product was his way out.

Moonsault, as far as apologizing for all of this, I think it might be a bit too late. Any damage you set out to do is already done, and wishing me nothing but the best will not undo what you started by posting first and realizing it might be the wrong thing to do later.

It sounds like you think I will be refunding money for something that is not defective and you would like to "recouperate" some of this so you can pay for painted stripes. I suggest you talk to your installer and tell him to refund the cost of the stripes AND whatever he charged you for the poor installation. THAT is where the responsibilty lies.

Take it to your bank, take it to SEMA (Who I doubt you got in touch with on a Saturday morninig like you said) and explain the ENTIRE story, not just the part that you make up to make us look bad, and see what the outcome is.

With that said, there will be no refund for a product that is not defective. The 100% Guarantee is for the product, NOT the Installation I did not do.