The possibility of '09 Camaro available with Flex Fuel

[munkee drummer]

Originally Posted by Casull

True, but the argument for ethanol is that it is essentially recycling CO2 that is already in existence as opposed to releasing more CO2 from a source that has been stored for millions of years.

Either way, I am a strong adversary of the whole global warming trend right now anyway... that is all I am going to say about that.

I think you said it best when you describe it as a "trend". Merely nothing more than a fad. Hoax. Lie. All meant to mislead and have more government control. The earth has cooling cycles and warming cycles we may or may not be in a warming cycle. However, I dont think that 2 degrees warmer in the last 100 yrs is anything to sweat (no pun intended) about. Ted Dansen told us in 1990 or so that if we didnt do something about the oceans that they would be useless in 10yrs. The people are not scientist!!! Al Gore flying around the world in his private jet and telling me to car pool and such!!! F you Gore. There are as many or more meteorologist that can dispute the global warming hoax, with facts mind you, than there are that try to get you to buy into this garbage. Do some research on the other side of the argument. You'll see these people are in it for themselves.

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by munkee drummer

"Seriously" There are so many holes in that theory that it looks like swiss cheese. Al Gore used you people and your *edited*.

It doesnt matter if its true or not, the fact is people believe it and are choosing to take action

[munkee drummer]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

It doesnt matter if its true or not, the fact is people believe it and are choosing to take action. Furthermore, while I understand that this may be a hot topic with you, calling someone 'stupid' does not make them want to listen to your side of the argument. And if you want to continue this discussion, I advise that you edit your post before the mods shut this thread down

Done

[The_Blur]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

It doesnt matter if its true or not, the fact is people believe it and are choosing to take action. Furthermore, while I understand that this may be a hot topic with you, calling someone 'stupid' does not make them want to listen to your side of the argument. And if you want to continue this discussion, I advise that you edit your post before the mods shut this thread down

I agree. If someone believes something with which you disagree, it is your responsibility to provide citable, reliable evidence rather than making a personal attack on a fellow enthusiast.

Moreover, the argument of ethanol versus gas has been discussed in another thread. I remember us coming to the conclusion that it uses about the same amount of toxins to refine but burns cleaner. Recently, GM teamed up with a green company that claims it can produce ethanol from sources other than corn for significantly less cost than contemporary gasoline. With these points, it's hard to deny the temptation to start using it as an alternative to increasingly expensive gasoline.

I would personally love a FlexFuel Camaro SS that's as easy to modify as a regular car. I haven't heard anything about the ability to gain horsepower with ethanol, so any insight from people with more knowledge on FlexFuel motors would be awesome.

[munkee drummer]

I drive a GMC Yukon that is flex fuel and there is a gas station .25 miles from my house and I fill up with it all the time. Usually 15 cents cheaper/gallon. I would like to see the Camaro with that tech as well. However, with the corn being used for gas, the price of a lot of other things will go up as the price of E85 comes down. For instance, Corn is used to feed cows, therefore any cow related products will go up because the demand for corn has gone up. Less corn for feed more $$$ for milk,steak, leather and such. Simple economics. Supply and demand.

P.S. Sorrrrrry for going off in the other post. Didnt mean for it to be taken personally.

[VTXrider]

Originally Posted by HotRodEwe

i dont understand the sence of buying a flex fuel car if you cant even get the e85, no were around me even has it...

I kind of see your point as there is no station I know of even in Florida, but if you plan to keep the car as I do for a long time I think you will be happy to have the Flex capability. As these new technologies take hold and hopefully the government eliminates the draconian tarrifs on ethenol imports, $.54 per gallon, and also import quotas, there will be alot more ethenol on the market. Brazilian ethenol could be here at a cost of just over $2 per gallon in port cities in fact they have some imports into the US even with the tarrif.

I think that you will begin to see stations across the country in the next couple of years and it will even be economical to buy a couple of years after that.

[The_Stache]

I'm not against a Flex fuel camaro, really I'm not. Personally I just wont buy one for the following reasons:

1'st: The amount of money I would spend for the Flex Fuel option on the car would take WAY to long to recoup at the pump (See the Prius Vrs Yaris argument)
2nd: No E85 stations in Arizona. Useless option then.

Those are the only reasons that matter to me, I don't believe in the whole global warming trend (show me facts not opinions) so that can't sway me.

**Off topic**

Our country has a dependence on oil, guess what so does the rest of the world. The big hoax is everyone thinks we are running out of oil. WE ARN'T. We are running out of CHEAP oil, and that CHEAP oil comes from the middle east. Once the price of oil bought from the middle east starts reaching the cost of say pulling out of the sand fields in Canada(which according to research hold more oil than the middle east), our dependency will shift from the middle east to Canada and other more expensive sources. Americans are used to getting what they want cheap (Hell thats my whole philosophy) and basically that cheap oil is going to go up to about $5 a gallon and level off for the next 50 years. Personally I CAN live with that.

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by diarmadhi

**Off topic**

Our country has a dependence on oil, guess what so does the rest of the world. The big hoax is everyone thinks we are running out of oil. WE ARN'T. We are running out of CHEAP oil, and that CHEAP oil comes from the middle east. Once the price of oil bought from the middle east starts reaching the cost of say pulling out of the sand fields in Canada(which according to research hold more oil than the middle east), our dependency will shift from the middle east to Canada and other more expensive sources. Americans are used to getting what they want cheap (Hell thats my whole philosophy) and basically that cheap oil is going to go up to about $5 a gallon and level off for the next 50 years. Personally I CAN live with that.

You are bang on with the end of cheap oil. Its supply and demand, demand goes up, supply goes down, price goes up and then more expensive oil can be used

*Going Further Off-Topic*

Its great that you buy our oil, but those damm Albertans won't share the money! They have no provincial sales tax, minimal other taxes, and they pretty much live like kings. And since the money comes from a natural resource they don't need to participate in the "economic equalization (or whatever its called)" scam . . . I mean scheme . . . I mean plan. The idea is that since some provinces are richer than others, they have to help pay for expensive things in those other provinces. I'm fine with that. Its a great idea (yes we are a bit to the left), it reminds me of Robin Hood. BUUUT there are currently only 2 provinces that are doing great, Ontario and Alberta. And we make the money off of our manufacturing industry, mostly automotive so we have to pay for everything others cant afford. The only reason why this is tolerated is because the rest of Canada hates Ontario (because we've always had the money ) and so they go along with it, and they out number us 2:1.

Oh, that and I just don't like Alberta. They think they are Texas, but not the real Texas that people like Tag know, the stereo-type of the loudmouthed redneck cowboy or oilman.

Im done now

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by 09'Z28

(http://www.iowacorn.org/ethanol/ethanol_5a.html) it is somewhat the same with racing fuel, when you put a couple gallons in every now-and-then(provided it has regular gas in there to mix with) it is good for your engine because it cleans out most of the build up in the engine, but to much of a good thing can be a bad thing, when you use it regularly it won't have anything to clean out so it will start to eat way at the inside of your engine slowly eating away at any thing it comes in contact with which is about the same thing that will happen with E85, if its not setup to run that way which is why there is a bit of work to be done to a engine in order to run it on E85
well if any of what I just said you can understand there you go and i think it was an episode of motor week that showed the inside of an engine not set up for E85

Gotcha. I read your post wrong, and thought you were talking about E85 engines, not being able to use E85...I was like WTF?!?!
All cool now.

Originally Posted by diarmadhi

I'm not against a Flex fuel camaro, really I'm not. Personally I just wont buy one for the following reasons:

1'st: The amount of money I would spend for the Flex Fuel option on the car would take WAY to long to recoup at the pump (See the Prius Vrs Yaris argument)
2nd: No E85 stations in Arizona. Useless option then.

100% agree on the oil thing. We're not running out persay, we just can't make enough to keep up with the demand, and as such - keep prices low.

As for #1. I don't believe a flex fuel motor (sold in a GM vehicle) will cost any more than a non flex-fuel. The minimal costs are absorbed across the board, so there's no "real" difference in price. And to take it further, (playing devils advocate, here ) what if the only engine offered (in 'blank' trim level) is E85 capable?

#2. completely agree. That NEEDS to change before there are any incentives for these cars.

[i3litzkrieg]

Originally Posted by TAG UR IT

Ok...I filled up the tank and did my math. In my 4th Gen, I averaged 17.3 mpg's city. Yes...I get on it quite a bit more than an average driver. I'd see what could happen if I laid off a little, but I don't think I manage to get through a week and a half w/out stepping on it.

As for the 5th Gen...We've been told GM wants the Camaro to be able to achieve 30+mpg's. Will this be possible? IMO, w/out a doubt. I have no worries that the Camaro won't get the good miles to the gallon.

ya a 30+ MPG v6 camaro , definitely not a 30+ mpg v8 camaro ................seriously a 30+ v8 its pure fantasy .....tell me one v8 in the planet able to do 30+ , the corvette is pretty near to that , but the camaro is heavier

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by i3litzkrieg

ya a 30+ MPG v6 camaro , definitely not a 30+ mpg v8 camaro ................seriously a 30+ v8 its pure fantasy .....tell me one v8 in the planet able to do 30+ , the corvette is pretty near to that , but the camaro is heavier

I think you inderestimate the potential of the Small block ....think AFM, and VVT, and DI...None of which the Corvette has. 30mpg is possible, albeit difficult.

[radz28]

Shoot, my LT1 could easily get 31 MPG on the freeway - ONLY freeway driving though. Once I got in the city, that feel by a large amount.

[The_Stache]

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

Gotcha. I read your post wrong, and thought you were talking about E85 engines, not being able to use E85...I was like WTF?!?!
All cool now.


100% agree on the oil thing. We're not running out persay, we just can't make enough to keep up with the demand, and as such - keep prices low.

As for #1. I don't believe a flex fuel motor (sold in a GM vehicle) will cost any more than a non flex-fuel. The minimal costs are absorbed across the board, so there's no "real" difference in price. And to take it further, (playing devils advocate, here ) what if the only engine offered (in 'blank' trim level) is E85 capable?

#2. completely agree. That NEEDS to change before there are any incentives for these cars.

Just as an FYI dragon, the Flex Fuel option is a $600.00 (MSRP) Option on the Silverado. Its not a freebee, and unfortunately I have seen the option marked up...(even here in Arizona where we don't have e85 available!!, dumb dealers)

If its an option that i can chose it wont be on mine. If it comes built in at no added cost. Uhh yea i don't really care, it just won't be used.

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by diarmadhi

I have seen the option marked up...(even here in Arizona where we don't have e85 available!!, dumb dealers)

I'd say smart dealers for trying, dumb buyers for paying for it.