2013 Ford Mustang Shelby GT 500 650 HP! How will it stack up against the ZL1?

[Wondering]

Ugh.....over at SVTPerformance their ZL1 vs 2013 GT500 has amassed a grand total of 42 responses.........

Love the one you're with guys.....always gonna be someone faster. And in this case,it's palusible,but certainly not set in concrete.

[Uneducated Guess]

Originally Posted by tooslow

To suggest that in their zeal to create a better SVT product they forgot or were not smart enough to sweat the details makes you come off as petty and biased.

but aren't most of the people in these forums biased? if they weren't, there would be no debate, no bickering, and no arguing of who's better or faster or more well built. I'd have to say I'm pretty biased toward the camaro. No doubt, the '13 GT500 is a beast. I would just rather buy a camaro over a mustang. I have no evidence to prove which is better, and neither does anybody else for that matter. All we can do is take the word of the manufacturer until these cars are actually on the road and have had an unbiased test performed buy a 3rd party. Even then, if the mustang comes out on top, I'd still prefer a camaro. That's just the way it is. I will still be happy with my ZL1. The chances of me coming across a GT500 around here are slim to none anyway.

[serpent]

Originally Posted by tooslow

You're killing me. Based on the surface, your comments seem to suggest that. The engineers at Ford are somehow inferior to the engineers at GM. Likely, many of them attended the same schools and have similar backgrounds. In fact, it even likely that many have them have been employed at both GM and Ford in their work history! To suggest that in their zeal to create a better SVT product they forgot or were not smart enough to sweat the details makes you come off as petty and biased. Just my observation.

And that's not even a picture of the 2013 GT500, it's some aftermarket cf driveshaft on some owners car. Do you even know if the driveshaft on the 2013 has/does not have shielding similar to what your suggesting?

LOL I believe he's basically grasping at the straws, Ford has already said the weight of the car, yet Pete wants to bet its closer to the ZL1? If closer you mean the GT500 PROBABLY weighing in at no more than 3950lbs, lol then yes its closer to the 41xxlbs that the ZL1 is suppose to be.

[Grabber]

Originally Posted by serpent

LOL I believe he's basically grasping at the straws, Ford has already said the weight of the car, yet Pete wants to bet its closer to the ZL1? If closer you mean the GT500 PROBABLY weighing in at no more than 3950lbs, lol then yes its closer to the 41xxlbs that the ZL1 is suppose to be.

Honestly, Pete should work for Ford.

He knows more about every Mustang than Ford themselves.

Including the weight, material of everything, how efficient their designs are, how much power they will really make in each car even before they make it, etc.

[ffrcobra_65]

Originally Posted by GTAHVIT

care to elaborate instead of just stirring the pot?

Stirring the pot? Where do you get that? Have you read my other posts? I care not for biased narrowminded outlook when it comes to cars and this hobby. I own both present day Camaro and GT500, and have owned way more Chevys than any other car in all 49 cars I have owned in the 22 years I have been driving. We were all hyped, crazed, dancing around about the ZL1 before any solid info was even announced other than it was being made and the LSA engine was going to be in it. We argued, debated, dreamed, boldly announced that it is being built to "destroy" the GT500 and now that we might be getting slapped in the face by the nemesis that will with huge counter punch (a potentially knock out punch)....never mind. This is a private site and you play god in it, I get it.

[GoldenBear]

Originally Posted by JusticePete

Building an automobile is not as easy as bolting on really high quality parts. You have to understand how all these parts work. You have to know what the operational limitations of the individual components are.

When laminated carbon fibre gets hot, the resin gets soft. A CF driveshaft as installed would be fine for drag passes, but would be exposed to far too much heat on a road course. The exhaust should have been re-routed or coated and wrapped for thermal management. My point is that a bunch of really great parts do not make for a great car. The devil is always found in the details.

GM has done an amazing job with the ZL1. This is not too say Ford has not done the same with the upcoming GT500. I don't have the same relationship with Ford that I enjoy with GM. I would hope they have made quite a few upgrades to typical Mustang to handle the additional power. A 200 MPH top speed in a car designed around a six cylinder budget friendly car does not inspire confidence. The guys over at SVT know what I know and I hope far more about the Mustang chassis dynamics. We'll all see how the ZL1 and new GT500 drive when they get into production. If they are both done right, American Muscle just moved to a level never before seen.

Originally Posted by tooslow

You're killing me. Based on the surface, your comments seem to suggest that. The engineers at Ford are somehow inferior to the engineers at GM.

I don't think that one can reasonably infer from Pete's comments that he suggests that the engineers at Ford are inferior to the the engineers at GM.

Originally Posted by tooslow

Likely, many of them attended the same schools and have similar backgrounds. In fact, it even likely that many have them have been employed at both GM and Ford in their work history!

Whether engineers attended the same schools and have similar backgrounds and worked at both Ford and GM are all irrelevant and immaterial to Pete's point that a bunch of great parts in themselves don't make a great car.

Originally Posted by tooslow

To suggest that in their zeal to create a better SVT product they forgot or were not smart enough to sweat the details makes you come off as petty and biased.

It again appears that far too much has been inferred from Pete's simple declarative statements.

[obzidian]

Originally Posted by LimaCharlie

Ford is evolving the GT500 into the Ford GT of 6-7 years ago. The GT500 is the highest performing vehicle in Ford's lineup. Therefore, I think they feel obligated to squeeze every ounce of performance possible in the car. 650 hp/600 tq is damn impressive but I think these numbers and new technology in the car will bring the base price well over the ZL1 price. I will be shocked if the base price is below $60K.

Its funny you said that.

A few months ago, there was a "release of info" from a person who had a "reliable source" that talked about that specifically.

Eventually, and sooner than later, the GT500 will be Ford's top gun. Big HP, everything. Almost what it is now. Ford knew that the ZL1 was coming out with at least 556hp so lets ask ourselves, why such a big jump. Well, that big of information now makes complete sense.

Now, this reliable source mentioned something along the lines that "...dont be surprised if they (ford) brings back the cobra/terminator." This car would represent a middle of the line performance mustang that will bridge the gap between the 5.0 and the GT500. Much like the GT500 was when Ford GT was in production.

Lets assume that this "new" model stang would be a supercharged 5.0 motor (much like the boss 302 5.0) making similar power to the ZL1.

I think that, in essence, is what ford is planning. A base 5.0, a track version that might stick around (boss 302), a middle the ground performer that will probably be more inline with the current ZL1 and then their top dog, the GT500.

Whatever car anyone of us has, these are awesome times! 600hp+ from the factory are a blessing.

Now, chevy needs to answer back and piss the stang boys off with a lighter, big HP camaro to get their attention.

[MaroSS]

Man, this is crazy, im gladi decided to wait because money is my biggest thing right now and the power i want is 600+ I was gonna mod the ZL1 i get but to have ford come out with a car that almost mimic's the ZL1 but with more horsepower .... thats crazy.

[obzidian]

Originally Posted by NicolasKL

5.4s with TVS 2300s can make 650 at the wheels. Hoping that Ford doesn't know what they're talking about and it won't end up easily being 650 horses is silly.

EXACTLY!

If you do a quick search for TVS GT500 on youtube, you'll find that most are running, at the SAME PSI the 2013 GT500 (15psi), in the 650-660rwhp range. That is well over 700hp crank. It doesn't really make sense how a larger motor with a the same blower with the same PSI is making less power unless its really d-tuned. Which I doubt.

Honestly, either that PSI number is off or the car is really, really underrated... by a big margin. 100hp almost.

Now, if you want to go there, VMP has a TVS in his personal car that hits 745rwhp on pump and 810rwhp+ on C16. The blower is turning over 20 psi though and it may be out if its efficiency range... not 100% sure on that.

[JusticePete]

Originally Posted by Grabber

So, apparently CF is not heat resistant?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_(fiber)

The properties of carbon fibers, such as high flexibility, high tensile strength, low weight, high resistance, high temperature tolerance and low thermal expansion, make them very popular in aerospace, civil engineering, military, and motorsports, along with other competition sports. However, they are relatively expensive when compared to similar fibers, such as glass fibers or plastic fibers.

The bigger issue is resin in a driveshaft exposed to heat.

[GTAHVIT]

Originally Posted by ffrcobra_65

Stirring the pot? Where do you get that? Have you read my other posts? I care not for biased narrowminded outlook when it comes to cars and this hobby. I own both present day Camaro and GT500, and have owned way more Chevys than any other car in all 49 cars I have owned in the 22 years I have been driving. We were all hyped, crazed, dancing around about the ZL1 before any solid info was even announced other than it was being made and the LSA engine was going to be in it. We argued, debated, dreamed, boldly announced that it is being built to "destroy" the GT500 and now that we might be getting slapped in the face by the nemesis that will with huge counter punch (a potentially knock out punch)....never mind. This is a private site and you play god in it, I get it.

You feel better?

I wanted you to elaborate... Just dropping a one liner in this thread as heated as it is serves no purpose to further the discussion.

I was quite certain you had more thought behind your comment. and I wanted to hear it. I felt that you normally contribute in a much more productive manner than just taking a shot like the one I quoted. It seemed out of character for you.

The text I highlighted in bold is what I expected to hear you say... I never insinuated that you needed to change your tact or your opinion. I simply wanted to hear your complete thought.. Not a simple poke. Much like the one you took at Fbod early on...

Two posts from you that are in my opinion out of the normal response from a trusted objective member like you.

I was simply trying to bring you back into your normal objective posts, which is as you pointed out, what this thread needs.

But since I'm playing God... Let me just offer you this to consider.

Very few posts have been deleted, This thread is in the ZL1 forum not the Mustang or GT500 mega thread. If I or any other mod were playing God we would have just deleted it and chosen to ignore whomever complained...

Other than the obvious trolls, no infractions or warnings have been issued from this thread..

It seems to me we are letting this play out as the members decide.

I don't like the one sided subjective approach to this debate either. Hence why I'm so hard on mustang guys who are only hear to chest thump the mustang with no consideration for the Camaro. When posting on a Camaro forum they should be objective as well.

You take it however you see fit.

My apologies if I was too direct.

[MaroSS]

Originally Posted by obzidian

Its funny you said that.

A few months ago, there was a "release of info" from a person who had a "reliable source" that talked about that specifically.

Eventually, and sooner than later, the GT500 will be Ford's top gun. Big HP, everything. Almost what it is now. Ford knew that the ZL1 was coming out with at least 556hp so lets ask ourselves, why such a big jump. Well, that big of information now makes complete sense.

Now, this reliable source mentioned something along the lines that "...dont be surprised if they (ford) brings back the cobra/terminator." This car would represent a middle of the line performance mustang that will bridge the gap between the 5.0 and the GT500. Much like the GT500 was when Ford GT was in production.

Lets assume that this "new" model stang would be a supercharged 5.0 motor (much like the boss 302 5.0) making similar power to the ZL1.

I think that, in essence, is what ford is planning. A base 5.0, a track version that might stick around (boss 302), a middle the ground performer that will probably be more inline with the current ZL1 and then their top dog, the GT500.

Whatever car anyone of us has, these are awesome times! 600hp+ from the factory are a blessing.

Now, chevy needs to answer back and piss the stang boys off with a lighter, big HP camaro to get their attention.

Yeah but do you really see this happening while GM has the vette?

[IcePick06]

202 mph is good marketing, I'm not gonna hate on FORD. Kudos to them for being able to squeeze that Top speed out of the current Mustang Chassis. How many tracks in the world will even let you hit 200+mph? probably less than the # of fingers on one hand...99% of the owners will NEVER even get close to that TOP SPEED (even if they track the car) so it really doesn't bother me that it goes that fast I don't feel inferior as a ZL1 owner in any way

bottom line, ZL1 and GT500 are both great cars,; we just enjoy a little rivalry to keep it fun and entertaining as GUYS

[Ltespd]

Originally Posted by Uneducated Guess

I'm just gonna put this out there...200mph is just a number that they're throwing out there to oust chevrolet. is it capable? probably. how many will actually achieve this? little to none. just like I don't expect many to hit the top speed in the ZL1 either. the top speed, imo, is insignificant.

Its about bragging rights. The 1st production muscle car to hit 200mph sounds impressive. But I agree its not very practical. When you compare 184mph to 200mph thats a big gap.