Am I wrong in my thinking.....if so tell me why

[Speedy1975]

FIRST OFF, PLEASE KEEP THIS CIVIL. I DON'T WANT THIS THREAD CLOSED.

A buddy of mine recently offered to give me access to GSU (supplier) pricing on a new Camaro if I wanted to order a 2010 rather than waiting. See my thread here:

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11887

The dealer I worked with has been great, answering questions and keeping me updated on various things on the car, however they told me yesterday they are not going to accept any discounts at this time.

I thought about it over night, slept on it, and thought about it some more this morning before making this thread, but here's my issue with this whole deal....

GM has announced in their January 9, 2009 IDL that all discounts on the car are accepted by them, meaning GM. However they left it open to the dealers to decline any discounts if they so choose. That just doesn't seem right to me. I mean if the parent company is offering something, shouldn't the franchises have to accept it?

Now, having said that, I'll go a step farther. I'm now part owner of GM based on all the bail out money they received. I mean they flat out told Congress it would be very difficult for them to even remain in business through December without MY money (meaning tax payer dollars). Being part owner, to now be told "yes there is a discount, but no we're not going to let you use it" seems like a slap in the face to me.

I would attribute this as follows:

Let's say you have a guy in your neighborhood with a lawn care business. Times are tough and he's struggling. He comes around to all his neighbors asking for a loan to keep his business afloat. Your neighborhood association raises their fee by $200 a month to help this guy, meaning everyone who lives in the neighborhood's house note goes up by $200. The money goes to him to keep his business running. You see he's offering a discount on lawn service and go see him about doing some work in your yard only to have him tell you that the discount doesn't apply to your neighborhood, you have to pay full price. Would you be OK with that?

If I'm wrong in my thinking, don't just tell me so, tell me why. The more I think on it the more pissed I'm getting. Especially now that I'm seeing more dealers offering GMS, GMU and $500 over invoice deals on 2010 Camaro Pre Sold Orders.

Again, please keep it civil.

Discuss.

[kanys]

While you are correct about dealers giving discounts, as you stated above it is up to them wether or not to honor them. Maybe you could ask around if other dealers in your area accept the discounts you listed, and use that info against your current dealer. I too find it completely ludicrous that a dealer would not accept discounts despite what GM said.

[Rodrunner]

That does suck, but I'm afraid it's like the markups many dealers are adding - out of GM's hands. Now, maybe the discounts are different and GM does have leverage over the dealers to force them to accept them, but I haven't seen that stated here, yet.

[Speedy1975]

Originally Posted by kanys

While you are correct about dealers giving discounts, as you stated above it is up to them wether or not to honor them. Maybe you could ask around if other dealers in your area accept the discounts you listed, and use that info against your current dealer. I too find it completely ludicrous that a dealer would not accept discounts despite what GM said.

Originally Posted by Rodrunner

That does suck, but I'm afraid it's like the markups many dealers are adding - out of GM's hands. Now, maybe the discounts are different and GM does have leverage over the dealers to force them to accept them, but I haven't seen that stated here, yet.

Therein lies my problem with this whole thing. Why should it be up to the dealers if the parent company is accepting them? Maybe I'm just ignorant to franchise laws and what not but it is really absurd to put the customer, as well as the dealer, in that position. It really sends a mixed message to the customer who is looking to spend about $30K - $40K on one of their products. It's like he said she said and IMO looks pretty bad, especially considering the current state of affairs.

[dbotsfordtat]

I guess what would bother me would be the dealer taking discounts for the car and using it as additional profit instead of giving it to the buyer. I don't know if that is even possible, but in this climate I would not be surprised if some less than honest dealers tried this.

[stovt001]

Yup this all comes from franchise laws. It really is out of GM's hands. It is stupid, and it is the franchise laws that are really killing GM. I appreciate the intent to protect small businesses, but franchise laws need some reform.

[t3chfr3ak]

I think that opting to not give discounts is fair. All dealerships are their own entity. Even if they do get their supply for the same price, some dealerships cant afford to give discounts. A bigger dealership on the other hand may be able to honor the discounts because they make more sales and get more trade-ins(which by the way is where they make their money). If it is a big dealership that you ordered from, Id politely ask for them to reconsider or you'll just go somewhere else. If it is small I would still ask politely but then if they say no Id ask why and maybe try to make a deal of some sort. Sometimes being nice will get you alot of things you want. In this time of recession, I dont think they can afford to lose a customer As for your idea of being part owner due to the fact that tax money is being lent, I think thats the wrong way to look at it. If it were true Id be part owner of my city, anyone on welfare, the prison.......

[Mr. Wyndham]

GM's loans came out of TARP (the money intended for the broken banks that caused all of this...)...which, to my understanding was borrowed money in and of itself. (might be wrong in that, though)

EDIT: Still...I don't think this would mean we have any ownership in them. When you apply for a loan at a bank, the bank doesn't own part of you, right?...this the same thing -- 'cept the gov't has to act as a huge-a$$ bank because the real ones are collapsing (or redecorating their offices )...

As for the rest -- I wouldn't say you were wrong at all. You have every right to be pissed. I would advise you to look for other dealers. GM is willing to accept discounts, but the dealer doesn't want to do it. And they can do that because as others have said: franchise laws, etc...so screw him and find someone else . Perhaps you feel we should all be treated more special or something given the loans...but I don't think this situation is GM's fault to begin with. All US dealers reserve this right, iirc. Ford, Chrysler, Toyota, Dodge, Honda, etc...if you're a dealer -- I'm pretty sure you're 'protected' under these laws.

Speaking of which...I don't think your analogy quite fits. I would say this is more accurate:

Let's say you have a guy in your neighborhood with a lawn care business. Times are tough and he's struggling. He comes around to all his neighbors asking for a loan to keep his business afloat. Your neighborhood association raises their fee by $200 a month to help this guy, meaning everyone who lives in the neighborhood's house note goes up by $200. The money goes to him to keep his business running. You see he's offering a discount on lawn service and go see one of his workers doing some work in your yard only to have the worker tell you that even though his boss offered a discount to you for assisting him, he doesn't want to accept it. Would you be OK with that?

[Rodrunner]

So, in the case of these employee, supplier, whatever discounts, GM still gets invoice for the car and the dealer takes the whole loss? If that's the case I too don't blame the dealers for refusing them.

[UCF w00t]

Fast food franchises sometimes have different pricing and don't always accept discounts of the parent.

[Speedy1975]

All very good points here. Franchise laws seem screwey to me.

[trm0002]

Originally Posted by Rodrunner

So, in the case of these employee, supplier, whatever discounts, GM still gets invoice for the car and the dealer takes the whole loss? If that's the case I too don't blame the dealers for refusing them.

To the best of my knowledge the dealer takes the entire hit except in the case of GMS (employee) in which the dealer gets rebated enough money by GM to effectively take the sale back to invoice price.

[MerF]

Originally Posted by Speedy1975

All very good points here. Franchise laws seem screwey to me.

It is capitalistic. In other words, it's your choice to give that dealer your money, or to take it elsewhere.

I would take it elsewhere, personally. That's the choice the dealer is making.

[Edrock]

Yep, that sucks because there's a reason you chose that dealer to begin with. I'm sure you'd rather go with them than start over. However, if they won't play, find someone else that will, assuming the supplier pricing discounts are not tied to a specific dealership. (don't know much about supplier discount pricing rules)