Whipple vs. TVS2300

[audiomikej]

I was ready to order a whipple kit this week and I am getting cold feet. I keep thinking the TVS2300 may be better for a pure street machine. 99% of the time I am sitting in stop and go traffic. The boost a pump makes me nervous. I feel like I should upgrade the exhaust at the same time as the Whipple install because 9 PSI seems like too much boost for an all stock street machine running on 91 octane. Where with the TVS2300 I could drive it as is and upgrade to LT headers next spring. I do not have access to a local tuner, only dyno.
I have already ruled out the E-force and KB because of the forbidden topic. (Think of a four letter word that rhymes with frost.) I do think the E-force is a better put together kit for a pure street car with no other planned upgrades, but not 10% better than the TVS2300. Plus the E-force takes a bit more labor to install, it’s heavier, and no more DOD.
Other information penitent to me: I have two kids, a 2 ½ year old and a new born. My wife is off to take care of baby. She will be off work until snow time. So I can drive my Camaro until snow/ December. Then next spring, I most likely will not be able to drive the Camaro much until September due to the rear facing car seat issue. So I could either buy a TVS2300 right now or buy a Whipple next spring and have all summer to tinker, tune, and debug.
Thoughts/ Opinions?

[2010victoryredss_ron]

Think of a four letter word that rhymes with frost.?????

[old motorhead]

Whether you need the BAP has nothing to do with which blower you choose. Exhaust doesn't make much difference either. I have no experience with the whipple, but I'm going to guess that it's similar to the Maggie boost/hp wise. Either can be toned down or toned up depending on your HP goals. The whipple might be a better choice for a big HP build. Up to about 700rwhp, there's probably not much difference.

[Whipple Charged]

The good news is that our system gives you all the componets to make that extra hp, and its actually just a touch cheaper then most the other systems. But its a simple pulley change to either low or increase boost. With less boost, you can really still make great power, as the massive intercooler keeps temps so cold, you can run increased spark vs. some of the other setups.

[usmcjlp]

Old motorhead is right. The BAP is a good thing. If you look at many maggie installers, to include Lingenfelter or ADM, they use the BAP as a safety measure. The BAP is good to about 700 rwhp, after that you need to switch to a dual fuel pump setup. 9 psi on a stock motor is fine as long as you have fuel flow and a safe tune. So actually you save yourself the cost of the BAP which I think is around $300.

All of the current systems will give you more than enough power. Both of these systems will give instant throttle response as they are positive displacement blowers. Don't get stuck on forum dyno racing. Whipple will get you in the mid 500 rwhp range easily. Much higher with supporting mods.

I will make one point. I chose the Whipple because I knew I wouldn't stop at a base SC install. The low IATs are a big plus. That being said Maggies are making tons of low end torque. On paper slightly more than the Whipple with just a base install. However, with my Whipple I can't go full throttle without hazing my tires. Honestly with either of these systems the hardest part will be getting traction. So all these arguments are kind of moot.

[Whipple Charged]

Originally Posted by usmcjlp

Old motorhead is right. The BAP is a good thing. If you look at many maggie installers, to include Lingenfelter or ADM, they use the BAP as a safety measure. The BAP is good to about 700 rwhp, after that you need to switch to a dual fuel pump setup. 9 psi on a stock motor is fine as long as you have fuel flow and a safe tune. So actually you save yourself the cost of the BAP which I think is around $300.

All of the current systems will give you more than enough power. Both of these systems will give instant throttle response as they are positive displacement blowers. Don't get stuck on forum dyno racing. Whipple will get you in the mid 500 rwhp range easily. Much higher with supporting mods.

I will make one point. I chose the Whipple because I knew I wouldn't stop at a base SC install. The low IATs are a big plus. That being said Maggies are making tons of low end torque. On paper slightly more than the Whipple with just a base install. However, with my Whipple I can't go full throttle without hazing my tires. Honestly with either of these systems the hardest part will be getting traction. So all these arguments are kind of moot.

Temps are a very big part of the equation, as the dyno only shows a small portion of the differences because its usually a short burst. SC's that have higher temps will climb more on the road then the dyno which means the actual HP is lower on the street. Thats why we put such a large IC on there, to maintain temps, whether street, strip or track, IAT's will be extremely low.

usmcjlp, awesome results on your car!

[Z_Rocks]

A 2.9 blower doesn't have to work as hard as a 2.3 blower to generate the same power. It's more efficient. But, what has blown my mind about these new designed Whipple, is how low the IAT is, which is much safer to the engine than a higher IAT which is more prone to detonation.

[usmcjlp]

Originally Posted by Whipple Charged

Temps are a very big part of the equation, as the dyno only shows a small portion of the differences because its usually a short burst. SC's that have higher temps will climb more on the road then the dyno which means the actual HP is lower on the street. Thats why we put such a large IC on there, to maintain temps, whether street, strip or track, IAT's will be extremely low.

usmcjlp, awesome results on your car!

I'm not done yet. I am glad you're here now. you wouldn't believe the number of questions I get. I try to answer, but you're the expert.

3 inch exhaust is going on Wednesday. I am considering smaller pulley and possibly forged internals to stay safe. SuperchargedSS just went BOOM!

Tim wants me to drive it for a few weeks before I do anything else. Which makes sense.

[usmcjlp]

Originally Posted by Z_Rocks

A 2.9 blower doesn't have to work as hard as a 2.3 blower to generate the same power. It's more efficient. But, what has blown my mind about these new designed Whipple, is how low the IAT is, which is much safer to the engine than a higher IAT which is more prone to detonation.

We're making 660rwhp and the blower seems to barely be working. We have done multiple pulls and the IAT stays within single digits of ambient. It doesn't start to creep up.

[Z_Rocks]

Originally Posted by usmcjlp

We're making 660rwhp and the blower seems to barely be working. We have done multiple pulls and the IAT stays within single digits of ambient. It doesn't start to creep up.

OMG, you guys are at 660 now? Is that with the new exhaust? If you have a good tune, and you don't beat it up and hit the redline, you can run it with stock bottom. The key here is that your IAT is low and the blower isn't putting too much strain on your engine. Just keep an eye on the fuel pressure and keep it rich and cool and you'll be fine.

[Whipple Charged]

Originally Posted by usmcjlp

I'm not done yet. I am glad you're here now. you wouldn't believe the number of questions I get. I try to answer, but you're the expert.

3 inch exhaust is going on Wednesday. I am considering smaller pulley and possibly forged internals to stay safe. SuperchargedSS just went BOOM!

Tim wants me to drive it for a few weeks before I do anything else. Which makes sense.

I appreciate you answering all the questions! Before you go with a smaller pulley, you might want to go with a NW 102mm TB, were also coming out with a 112mm but the 102 will pickup 20+hp and boost will go up about .5psi. We have a different billet venturi for the 102mm so its pretty much a bolt on item.

Exhaust always help extract more heat from the engine so thats a good idea!

Most engines blow from detonation, from pure power, its rare unless the rev's get out of control.

[Crowley]

If your not going to build the engine for boost, it isn't going to matter which one you choose as at low boost they will both offer similar results. If you are building the block and going for high boost, whipple should be your choice ..

Crowley

[Sack Rat 2SS]

A few points. Kenny Bell boost a pump has been on my 427 TT Vette for eight years now with no issues. Regarding blowers it is a lot to ask but I would like to know the blower inlet and exit temp, intercooler inlet temp, and intercooler exit temp/engine IAT. That would tell much about efficiency of both the blower and intercooler. Years ago the older Eaton PD blowers beat the air to death heating it. Not nearly as bad now with the Magie TVS impellers. The twin-screw, past and present, gradually compress the air charge more progressively and did not heat the air charge quite as much. The blower type difference years back were greater than now.

Also, whipple has only one drive belt to be concerned with slippage as the impellers are gear driven in the rear. However you cannot over-clock the Whipple gears like you can the Maggie rear belt drive. This would only be done to go to very high boost, over 10psi ish. Both blowers have different drive pulley diameters to alter boost.

Lastly the centrifical's gererally use a seperate drive belt from the engine accessories belt. One belt does not have to be loaded up to do so much work. Now if the PD blowers could use a dedicated belt?? It is great to have so many choices for our Camaros, and perhaps more coming. A PD blower with its own drive would be huge to reduce belt slip.

[Whipple Charged]

Originally Posted by Sack Rat 2SS

A few points. Kenny Bell boost a pump has been on my 427 TT Vette for eight years now with no issues. Regarding blowers it is a lot to ask but I would like to know the blower inlet and exit temp, intercooler inlet temp, and intercooler exit temp/engine IAT. That would tell much about efficiency of both the blower and intercooler. Years ago the older Eaton PD blowers beat the air to death heating it. Not nearly as bad now with the Magie TVS impellers. The twin-screw, past and present, gradually compress the air charge more progressively and did not heat the air charge quite as much. The blower type difference years back were greater than now.

Also, whipple has only one drive belt to be concerned with slippage as the impellers are gear driven in the rear. However you cannot over-clock the Whipple gears like you can the Maggie rear belt drive. This would only be done to go to very high boost, over 10psi ish. Both blowers have different drive pulley diameters to alter boost.

Lastly the centrifical's gererally use a seperate drive belt from the engine accessories belt. One belt does not have to be loaded up to do so much work. Now if the PD blowers could use a dedicated belt?? It is great to have so many choices for our Camaros, and perhaps more coming. A PD blower with its own drive would be huge to reduce belt slip.

Nobody's knocking the KB BAP, we used them for years, but IMO, the MSD offers the users more adjustments and has plenty of capacity.

The power consumptions over the years have gotten closer, but the screw's have also gotten larger, TVS has not reached the proper capacity for these engines when they're modified. The Temp differential is still tremendous, and gets greater as boost and air flow increases. Then add the fact that the screw's are now bigger, its back to having a rather large difference, especially on slightly modified packages.

Also, the Whipple system comes with a very beefy belt system with multiple adjustable idlers and a much better spring loaded tensioner. The maggie skimps on this part which always will lead to belt slipage. Furthermore, you can easily go to an 8 and even a 10-rib system with ours, or a seperate belt loop. But for 700rwhp and under, none of that is needed.

As for loading the drive system, I'm not sure what your saying, but we've got far more capacity then the Magnusson system. We have oversized double angular bearings inside the bearing plate, oil splash guards, vents, etc all in there. No belt slipage, no belt noise, no belt residue, no odd angled shafts....