was told today that V6's only have 290hp

[angie7]

We had to take my b/f's charger to the dodge dealer for an oil change. To kill time while we were waiting, we were looking at the new challengers. A salesman approached and we started talking cars. My b/f mentioned that the challenger was a car I was looking at b4 I bought my '11 camaro. My b/f also mentioned that it's pretty quick for a V6 and can keep up with his V8. The salesmen then "informed" us that he just came from the chevy dealer and said the camaro's are nice with 304hp but it loses 10hp through the wheels.......I said, actually they have 312hp to which he replied "oh...."

[ga0358]

what a dink...consumers having to educate "car sales professionals"...

[DGthe3]

And if they're only losing 10hp then you've only got about 75 hp at the crank

[rolnslo]

I'd be happy as hell if my V6 only lost 10hp through the wheels. Typical losses for all cars, Dodge included, is 12-20% depending on transmission (auto/manual). Would be nice if all manufacturers would quote RWHP, not engine HP.

[jagan323]

LOL, what a dumb salesman. If I went to dodge, and wanted to buy a dodge, and some salesman doesnt know what the heck he's talking about, I'd leave, and go Chevy. Wait, that's exactly what I did =)

[SlingShot]

LOL ... The V6 A6 is losing on average 80 Hp to the wheels.

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by rolnslo

I'd be happy as hell if my V6 only lost 10hp through the wheels. Typical losses for all cars, Dodge included, is 12-20% depending on transmission (auto/manual). Would be nice if all manufacturers would quote RWHP, not engine HP.

That introduces 2 new sets of variables: the variation in drivetrain loss between each car and the different dynos and techniques used at the shops where you get your car tested. The drivetrain doesn't vary too much, but dynos certainly do.

You can take the same car to have a 6 different dynos in the same day and get 6 different results with around a 10% spread between the high and low. Which one would a manufacturer aim for to certify their car? The high to make it look impressive? Then everyone else will complain that their car is under-performing if they find they're down 20 hp. Go the other way and everyone will claim to have a factory freak.

On top of that, each engine tested under the current SAE standerds is allowed to be off by something like a 1-2%. So while an LS3 Camaro is advertised at 426 hp, that does not mean that each and every one makes only 426 hp. Some might be up to 430 or even 435. I'm pretty sure GM picked a low-ball for their nominal value (as opposed to a middle or high number). Its not much, but it is there already and complicates any attempt to make a standard for measuring RWHP. Add that to the differences between dynos and it becomes an utter nightmare.

And to what end? So that people can brag about rwhp vs bragging about it at the crank? That doesn't add anything, besides more room for excuses as to why one car is higher than another. Anyone who plans on dyno tuning their car will get a base run anyway because they know you can't really compare 2 cars on 2 dynos on 2 days. Why not just take it to a track and see how fast it actually is? Chassis dynos are a tuning tool. You take your car in, make a few baseline runs, add some parts and test it again, then tune it, and test it, and run it, and so on.

[nancygrl]

[INTIMIDAT3R]

A lot of people have always made a big deal about our muscle cars having V-8's or V-6's. I say who gives a flying @#$%???

I drive not only drive a Camaro SS, I drive an LT too. I love them both.

My SS takes a back seat to no one.

My LT has enough power to get me into or out of trouble depending my my mood, but also handles like a lady and is my daily driver.

Point is, is there really a need for this "My **** is bigger than your ****" Discussion anymore?

I don't see the need. We own our vehicles because we love them and love driving them. I just wish those "who don't know" or dumb-a** salesman would stop asking or saying, "Does that have a V-8?... You should have gotten the V-8."

My reply when someone asks me if my red Camaro has a V-8 and/or asks/calls it a Mustang, "Yeah and it's got a Hemi."

[fielderLS3]

I think the dealer got confused. The Challenger is the one with 290 hp, and that loses 10 hp through the springs alone just trying to hold the mass of that car up.

[Revo1]

He's probably not far off. BHP and RWHP are different.

Factory, the LLT motor makes 312bhp. BUT, if you put it on the dyno you'll see the the rear wheel hp is marginally lower. (You'll lose around 15%)

Same goes for all cars. My L99 stock made 400BHP, but most likely around 340RWP. It's not bad, just the way things are. If you want to put 312hp to the ground, better start modding

[xXSilencerXx]

Originally Posted by Revo1

He's probably not far off. BHP and RWHP are different.

Factory, the LLT motor makes 312bhp. BUT, if you put it on the dyno you'll see the the rear wheel hp is marginally lower. (You'll lose around 15%)

Same goes for all cars. My L99 stock made 400BHP, but most likely around 340RWP. It's not bad, just the way things are. If you want to put 312hp to the ground, better start modding

QFT!

[dmginc]

Originally Posted by rolnslo

I'd be happy as hell if my V6 only lost 10hp through the wheels. Typical losses for all cars, Dodge included, is 12-20% depending on transmission (auto/manual). Would be nice if all manufacturers would quote RWHP, not engine HP.

4th gen hp ratings were rear wheel...300+ to the rear wheels depending on what model.

[xXSilencerXx]

Originally Posted by dmginc

4th gen hp ratings were rear wheel...300+ to the rear wheels depending on what model.

No, they were still crank. Just under rated from the factory.