Broken Axles: Hype or Reality

[EvoWake]

Okay...

I hear a lot of people saying axles axles axles... and I see many people swapping for peace of mind, BUT I'm having a hard time finding many cases of legitimate broken axles.

So here it is... broken Axle Poll.

Please detail your power level and what ya did to kill them if you did.

And I apologize if there is an existing thread like this, I tried searching around with not a whole lot of luck.

[Turbobitt]

Definetly not a mith. Took mine to the track and experienced bad wheel hop. Shortly after they broke doing a burnout. Mine was all stock at the time but now upgraded to stiffer rear suspension components.

Also not a mith is the stock Posi being a POS. Noticed it stopped holding after the axle broke.

Allan G.

[SSE 4 2SS]

Uhm.... stock axles have no chance in my car... I changed them out before they broke and stranded me somewhere... There are numbers of them....broken and scattered around the country at various "race" tracks...

I'm praying my diff holds together until I can replace it... My tranny is out of the car right now being gone through... Carbon fiber synchros, steel forks etc... and with the Diff comes a one piece drive shaft....

[Camaro21]

I have 625rwhp and 595rwtq on Stock Drive Line and Drive the SH~T out of my car at the track and haven't broken anything YET !!

[EvoWake]

Originally Posted by Camaro21

I have 625rwhp and 595rwtq on Stock Drive Line and Drive the SH~T out of my car at the track and haven't broken anything YET !!

That makes me feel a bit better. I'm at 612/580 and going to be hitting the track soon. So far the poll is showing exactly what I imagined... lets give it some time

[Padre]

Wheelhop seems to be the culprit, not strength of the axles. Fix the wheelhop and less worry about axles (until certain power levels). Also fix the alignment and you'll worry less about one-wheel burnouts and the posi-mod.

Padre

[Coop]

Padre what is the alignment fix? Never heard about this.

[Padre]

Originally Posted by Coop

Padre what is the alignment fix? Never heard about this.

Just getting a good alignment, as JusticePete says, "The cheapest and most overlooked drag strip modification is rear wheel alignment. The less negative camber you have at rest, the better your rear tires will bite as your 5th Gen squat-ts."

Here's a good wheel-hop thread:
http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=130950

Here's a thread that discusses a problem that misalignment causes mis-distribution of weight and one-wheel spin (also did the posi-mod, but mainly because of so much power):
http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3061186

Padre

[mlee]

Quite sure this is my weak link now at 610hp... however the Autos have a much smoother launch without wheel hop. I've seen plenty of stock M6 cars break axles.

My motto is why replace good parts, break em first, although that didn't work so well at C5Fest..

Padre is dead on...

[Driveshaftshop]

We have a bit of insight on this, We have been making performance axles for over 12 years and this is what we have to say. there are some people that can launch a car with the talent of a well seasoned team, being able to feel the car out and knowing the limit to each part and the ability to coordinate the clutch-gas-suspension and everything else that can make a car stay together. We had a Pro-FWD Honda driver from Canada that was using a set of 600Hp axles on a 900hp car running low 9 second passes. I saw him at PRI one year (this was some time ago) and i asked him how he managed to keep the car together. He said his clutch foot was like one of the finest tools in his tool box, he knew how to use it properly so it didn't damage anything else.

Then there are people that should remove there various pedals and put in switches in place of the Gas pedal-Clutch pedal and so on. In big league racing they use slipper clutches, the reason is if there were to put all the power they had to the ground they would have parts falling out from under the car. so launch technique is paramount in this discussion.

On top of this there is the quality of the part itself, the Stock Axles are made from a high carbon material and has allot of retained austinite (for lack of a better term its bad cholesterol for metal) its has chunks of material that never really get flowed out properly in the heat treat process and this inconsistent problem is what will cause a Factory shaft to either last or fail quickly. The higher grade materials like 4340 and 300m are a cleaner blend and do not have this problem.

so the reason some stock axles last and others done have a 2 part answer, it could be the driver is a bit harder on launching or its possible the material had been poorly heat treated with more retained austinite causing failure.


Take a look at this stock axle, this was in mercurymans car, he changed the axles as a safe guard. good thing he did. check out how far the spline was twisted. most will break the center bars before this will happen but its a good example of what I'm taking about with the material/Heat treat issue of the Stock parts.

[carguy]

Not a Myth...Actually spun the axle in the CV Joint grabbing second gear.

Could have been done another time I guess.

Also broke out put shaft on tranny as well.Also grabbing a quick second gear.

I put stock CV's and axles back in under warranty. At least until I get a rear fix because something has to be the weak link and right now I would rather it be the axles and CV's than the whole rear.

I have been waiting for a 9 inch upgrade and am now saving that for the next upgrade before pushing any more HP through the stock driveline.

Just have to go easy on those second gear shifts I guess.


568 RWHP 540 rwtq

[Steve]

Originally Posted by carguy

Not a Myth...Actually spun the axle in the CV Joint grabbing second gear.

Could have been done another time I guess.

Also broke out put shaft on tranny as well.Also grabbing a quick second gear.

I put stock CV's and axles back in under warranty. At least until I get a rear fix because something has to be the weak link and right now I would rather it be the axles and CV's than the whole rear.

I have been waiting for a 9 inch upgrade and am now saving that for the next upgrade before pushing any more HP through the stock driveline.

Just have to go easy on those second gear shifts I guess.


568 RWHP 540 rwtq

I've done the same damage (half-axel and tranny output shaft) on a stock machine. The output shaft was last year during a launch attempt. The half-axel went this spring when I was power shifting into second. My VIN is 13279 so I figure it may have a little to do with being an early car. Maybe I am too hard on the clutch release?

[Driveshaftshop]

Originally Posted by carguy

Not a Myth...Actually spun the axle in the CV Joint grabbing second gear.

Could have been done another time I guess.

Also broke out put shaft on tranny as well.Also grabbing a quick second gear.

I put stock CV's and axles back in under warranty. At least until I get a rear fix because something has to be the weak link and right now I would rather it be the axles and CV's than the whole rear.

I have been waiting for a 9 inch upgrade and am now saving that for the next upgrade before pushing any more HP through the stock driveline.

Just have to go easy on those second gear shifts I guess.


568 RWHP 540 rwtq

great point

[GFORCE1320]

This is a question we get allot, back when we started manufacturing GTO axles we had a bunch of the OEM axles and axle stubs analyzed for material composition and hardness.
What we found was they tend to use a mixture of materials that fall into the 1050 material range. Great for economical mass production and great for holding stock power but not great for putting any kind of power to.
We use aircraft grade 4340 and 300m material for our axles, it is a much more pure blend of steel and is made in a controlled vacuum process to keep out any impurities.
What we also found was most all of them were induction hardened. Induction hardening doesn’t penetrate nearly as deep as the through hardening process like we use and is very inconsistent.
On our Shop car (05 GTO) We had a set of stock axles that we were able to run high 9's on believe it or not but that with a carbon fiber driveshaft that absorbs a bunch of the drivetrain shock.
We also had stock axles that would break on 12 second passes, it was just luck of the draw.