Is Traction Control Working? Wheel Spin in Second Gear Regardless of TC Mode - Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums

StingATX · 10-20-2015, 05:23 PM

I have had my 1LE car for about a year or so and use it for occasional HPDE (drove on COTA last month) – awesome car – best I have ever owned. I've noticed (more so recently) that when turn TC / ST to competitive mode, off, or leave on, that there is considerable wheel spin (regardless of the mode) in second gear. I DO notice a huge difference when I am on a track, coming out of a turn with TC/ST on, that if there is considerable "yaw" or "rotation" while exiting the turn, acceleration is delayed maybe 2 seconds. When I turn TC/TC off (holding button down for 7 seconds) than there is no delay (even in competitive mode) - from my understanding this is stabilitrak and it seems to be working just fine.

However, when I am in 2nd gear, going straight, my wheels slip considerably (even in third gear). When I turn TC off / competitive mode, or back on, the amount of slip seems to be exactly the same – as if my TC is not working – through getting no errors on the dash. I understand this car has a considerable amount of torque, but there should be some difference in wheel spin when I turn TC off and on, correct?

Question: When in second gear with TC on, do you have considerable wheel spin?

Does it change when you turn TC off or on? I appreciate the feedback.

I have done research on the differences between TC and ST and how it works and it seems like TC should be stopping most of the wheel spin:

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=38885

From the above post:

Traction Control

When drive wheel slip is noted, the EBCM will enter traction control mode.

First, the EBCM requests the engine control module (ECM) to reduce the amount of torque to the drive wheels via a serial data message. The ECM reduces torque to the drive wheels and reports the amount of delivered torque.

If the engine torque reduction does not reduce drive wheel slip, the EBCM will actively apply the brakes on the slipping drive wheel. During traction control braking, hydraulic pressure in each drive wheel circuit is controlled to prevent the drive wheels from slipping. The EBCM commands the pump motor and appropriate solenoid valves ON and OFF to apply brake pressure to the slipping wheel.

Traction control can be manually disabled by pressing the traction control switch.

Stability Control

Stability control provides added stability during aggressive maneuvers. Yaw rate is the rate of rotation about the vehicle's vertical axis. The stability control is activated when the EBCM determines that the desired yaw rate does not match the actual yaw rate as measured by the yaw rate sensor.

The desired yaw rate is calculated by the EBCM using the following inputs:
• Steering wheel position
• Vehicle speed
• Lateral acceleration

The difference between the desired yaw rate and the actual yaw rate is the yaw rate error, which is a measurement of oversteer or understeer. When a yaw rate error is detected, the EBCM attempts to correct the vehicle's yaw motion by applying brake pressure to one or more of the wheels. The amount of brake pressure which is applied varies, depending on the correction required. The engine torque may be reduced also, if it is necessary to slow the vehicle while maintaining stability.

Stability control activations generally occur in turns during aggressive driving. When braking during stability control activation, the brake pedal may pulsate.

Stability control can be manually disabled by pressing the traction control switch for 5 s.

extraurban · 10-20-2015, 05:39 PM

Here's a good summary:

From here: http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showth...=173001&page=2

StingATX · 10-20-2015, 06:11 PM

Thanks Extra. I think that is in the manual as well and found that in my research. I understand how to turn on and off the different modes but my problem is when on a straightaway the level of wheel slip doesn't seem to change regardless of mode (TC). Curious as to the level of wheel slip that most folks are seeing in second gear, with TC on and off - is there a noticeable difference?

ZYBORG · 10-20-2015, 06:17 PM

Sting,

In my experience, TC doesnt always "work".

Joseph1LE · 10-20-2015, 06:32 PM

Spinning even in 3rd? Doesn't sound right to me...

ZYBORG · 10-20-2015, 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joseph1LE

Spinning even in 3rd? Doesn't sound right to me...

Not sure what mods OP has, But, I know the 3rd gear spinning is possible under the right conditions.. Texas, has some really bad roads... Its like they coat them with mexican chorizo juices, or some other grease... Its real bad here, combined with some power upgrades and nearly worn tires... Yeah, 3rd gear spin is possible.

StingATX · 10-20-2015, 07:58 PM

It does it considerably in second, almost all the time. Barely does it in third around 4.5K RPM's. Tires are fairly new - about 4K miles on them.

Mods just Cold Air Inductions CAI, NPP exhaust. Spun in 2nd and a bit in 3rd today driving home on a major roadway in North Austin (Parmer Lane) coming off the light. Road was asphalt.

Again, tested with TC off and on including holding the button down for 7 seconds (and competitive mode) and no real difference in spin / wheel hop between the different modes while driving straight.

Joseph1LE · 10-20-2015, 08:44 PM

I must have some sticky roads here in south FL lol. Mine will brake loose hard in first, wheel hop a bit sometimes on a 2nd gear hit, but have never spun 3rd right off of a hit. It'll chirp on the 2-3 shift sometimes too, ect. But it's never just broke the tires loose from going WOT while already in 3rd gear, and rarely does it in 2nd gear on most of the roads in my area. My car just likes to hook. And I've raced enough cars to know that mine is very healthy and moves out well.

jonathan13 · 10-20-2015, 09:41 PM

OP- what tires are you running? Factory G2's or something different? My '15 1LE hardly ever spins unless the tires aren't warm. (Factory G2's)

ZYBORG · 10-20-2015, 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joseph1LE

I must have some sticky roads here in south FL lol. Mine will brake loose hard in first, wheel hop a bit sometimes on a 2nd gear hit, but have never spun 3rd right off of a hit. It'll chirp on the 2-3 shift sometimes too, ect. But it's never just broke the tires loose from going WOT while already in 3rd gear, and rarely does it in 2nd gear on most of the roads in my area. My car just likes to hook. And I've raced enough cars to know that mine is very healthy and moves out well.

Consider yourself blessed, S. FL roads are the shit, especially when compard to tx.

B73 · 10-21-2015, 01:56 AM

even with full nannies on I always had real bad wheel hop in first and second gear when I had my goodyears on. The traction control only ever seemed to come on if I let it spin too long or it started stepping sideways on me

Camarotobeornottobe · 10-21-2015, 08:09 AM

I have the same issues. I get on it, and the car has to be really out of shape sideways before the nannies help. Pretty clear to me that the computer is set up to keep you from wrecking -- it could care less about whether you are getting the most speed out of the car

Elvira1le · 10-21-2015, 11:31 AM

I believe that all that traction control can do is make sure one wheel is not spinning faster than the one on the other side. If both are spinning at same speed, they just spin momentarily.

StingATX · 10-21-2015, 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonathan13

OP- what tires are you running? Factory G2's or something different? My '15 1LE hardly ever spins unless the tires aren't warm. (Factory G2's)

Yup - stock G2's. They have about 4K on them, with one drive on COTA - tread looks about 60% plus or minus.

10-20-2015, 05:23 PM	#1
StingATX Drives: 2015 Camaro SS 1LE Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Austin Posts: 19 View My Garage	Is Traction Control Working? Wheel Spin in Second Gear Regardless of TC Mode I have had my 1LE car for about a year or so and use it for occasional HPDE (drove on COTA last month) – awesome car – best I have ever owned. I've noticed (more so recently) that when turn TC / ST to competitive mode, off, or leave on, that there is considerable wheel spin (regardless of the mode) in second gear. I DO notice a huge difference when I am on a track, coming out of a turn with TC/ST on, that if there is considerable "yaw" or "rotation" while exiting the turn, acceleration is delayed maybe 2 seconds. When I turn TC/TC off (holding button down for 7 seconds) than there is no delay (even in competitive mode) - from my understanding this is stabilitrak and it seems to be working just fine. However, when I am in 2nd gear, going straight, my wheels slip considerably (even in third gear). When I turn TC off / competitive mode, or back on, the amount of slip seems to be exactly the same – as if my TC is not working – through getting no errors on the dash. I understand this car has a considerable amount of torque, but there should be some difference in wheel spin when I turn TC off and on, correct? Question: When in second gear with TC on, do you have considerable wheel spin? Does it change when you turn TC off or on? I appreciate the feedback. I have done research on the differences between TC and ST and how it works and it seems like TC should be stopping most of the wheel spin: http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=38885 From the above post: Traction Control When drive wheel slip is noted, the EBCM will enter traction control mode. First, the EBCM requests the engine control module (ECM) to reduce the amount of torque to the drive wheels via a serial data message. The ECM reduces torque to the drive wheels and reports the amount of delivered torque. If the engine torque reduction does not reduce drive wheel slip, the EBCM will actively apply the brakes on the slipping drive wheel. During traction control braking, hydraulic pressure in each drive wheel circuit is controlled to prevent the drive wheels from slipping. The EBCM commands the pump motor and appropriate solenoid valves ON and OFF to apply brake pressure to the slipping wheel. Traction control can be manually disabled by pressing the traction control switch. Stability Control Stability control provides added stability during aggressive maneuvers. Yaw rate is the rate of rotation about the vehicle's vertical axis. The stability control is activated when the EBCM determines that the desired yaw rate does not match the actual yaw rate as measured by the yaw rate sensor. The desired yaw rate is calculated by the EBCM using the following inputs: • Steering wheel position • Vehicle speed • Lateral acceleration The difference between the desired yaw rate and the actual yaw rate is the yaw rate error, which is a measurement of oversteer or understeer. When a yaw rate error is detected, the EBCM attempts to correct the vehicle's yaw motion by applying brake pressure to one or more of the wheels. The amount of brake pressure which is applied varies, depending on the correction required. The engine torque may be reduced also, if it is necessary to slow the vehicle while maintaining stability. Stability control activations generally occur in turns during aggressive driving. When braking during stability control activation, the brake pedal may pulsate. Stability control can be manually disabled by pressing the traction control switch for 5 s.

10-20-2015, 06:17 PM	#4
ZYBORG Lets roll... Drives: 14' Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: TX/S.FL Posts: 1,495	Sting, In my experience, TC doesnt always "work". __________________

10-20-2015, 06:32 PM	#5
Joseph1LE Drives: 2015 Camaro SS 1LE, 2001 Camaro SS Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: Miami Posts: 836	Spinning even in 3rd? Doesn't sound right to me... __________________ 2017 GMC Canyon All Terrain- daily driver/dirt bike hauler 2015 Camaro SS 1LE- sold 2001 Camaro SS SOM M6- sold 1999 Firebird Formula A4- sold

10-20-2015, 08:44 PM	#8
Joseph1LE Drives: 2015 Camaro SS 1LE, 2001 Camaro SS Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: Miami Posts: 836	I must have some sticky roads here in south FL lol. Mine will brake loose hard in first, wheel hop a bit sometimes on a 2nd gear hit, but have never spun 3rd right off of a hit. It'll chirp on the 2-3 shift sometimes too, ect. But it's never just broke the tires loose from going WOT while already in 3rd gear, and rarely does it in 2nd gear on most of the roads in my area. My car just likes to hook. And I've raced enough cars to know that mine is very healthy and moves out well. __________________ 2017 GMC Canyon All Terrain- daily driver/dirt bike hauler 2015 Camaro SS 1LE- sold 2001 Camaro SS SOM M6- sold 1999 Firebird Formula A4- sold

10-20-2015, 05:39 PM	#2
extraurban Drives: Junker Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: north, eh Posts: 52	Here's a good summary: From here: http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showth...=173001&page=2

10-20-2015, 06:11 PM	#3
StingATX Drives: 2015 Camaro SS 1LE Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Austin Posts: 19 View My Garage	Thanks Extra. I think that is in the manual as well and found that in my research. I understand how to turn on and off the different modes but my problem is when on a straightaway the level of wheel slip doesn't seem to change regardless of mode (TC). Curious as to the level of wheel slip that most folks are seeing in second gear, with TC on and off - is there a noticeable difference?

10-20-2015, 07:58 PM	#7
StingATX Drives: 2015 Camaro SS 1LE Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Austin Posts: 19 View My Garage	It does it considerably in second, almost all the time. Barely does it in third around 4.5K RPM's. Tires are fairly new - about 4K miles on them. Mods just Cold Air Inductions CAI, NPP exhaust. Spun in 2nd and a bit in 3rd today driving home on a major roadway in North Austin (Parmer Lane) coming off the light. Road was asphalt. Again, tested with TC off and on including holding the button down for 7 seconds (and competitive mode) and no real difference in spin / wheel hop between the different modes while driving straight.

10-20-2015, 09:41 PM	#9
jonathan13 Drives: 2015 Summit White 1LE Join Date: Sep 2015 Location: Charlotte Posts: 49	OP- what tires are you running? Factory G2's or something different? My '15 1LE hardly ever spins unless the tires aren't warm. (Factory G2's)

10-21-2015, 01:56 AM	#11
B73 Drives: 2013 2ss rs 1le in Victory Red Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: Prince George B.C. Canada Posts: 77	even with full nannies on I always had real bad wheel hop in first and second gear when I had my goodyears on. The traction control only ever seemed to come on if I let it spin too long or it started stepping sideways on me

10-21-2015, 08:09 AM	#12
Camarotobeornottobe Drives: 1LE Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: East Coast Man Posts: 550	I have the same issues. I get on it, and the car has to be really out of shape sideways before the nannies help. Pretty clear to me that the computer is set up to keep you from wrecking -- it could care less about whether you are getting the most speed out of the car

10-21-2015, 11:31 AM	#13
Elvira1le Mistress of the dark Drives: Black 2014 RS 2SS 1LE Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Chandler, Az Posts: 104 View My Garage	I believe that all that traction control can do is make sure one wheel is not spinning faster than the one on the other side. If both are spinning at same speed, they just spin momentarily.