Volant CAI installed

[brtaus]

Originally Posted by steeleshark2

I sent a PM to ya!!

Just got it....

[axis]

Originally Posted by steeleshark2

Either way, you are fixing the mixture to compensate for the new setup.

There's a small problem with either method. If your MAF is not seeing all the air that's coming into the system, you're tuning your FTs at todays temps. What's gonna happen in a couple months when the temp goes back up to 70's-90's? The mass of the air at lower temps is considerably greater than the mass at higher temps. You shouldn't throw lean codes because you'll be running richer, but you'll be leaving HP on the table because of it. To run at peak efficiency, you'll need to send Ted or whoever the FT's over and over when the temps change considerably. That's not their fault as that's all you can do when you're tricking the MAF to gain HP.

[steeleshark2]

The temperature fluctuations occur even with stock. However, I have a winter and summer tune,

[axis]

Originally Posted by steeleshark2

The temperature fluctuations occur even with stock. However, I have a winter and summer tune,

Yes they do BUT, the MAF and PCM are set up to make changes based on no unmetered air going into your engine. That 18% unmetered air is at X mass with this cold air. It will be considerably less mass come summer time. While your MAF and PCM will make changes to the METERED air, it will still add that same amount of fuel that you're adding now for the unmetered air.

People have been fooling the MAF for years to get extra power and it works pretty well. The problem is, once you start down this path, it will become labor intensive to keep your car running at peak performance. If you're the kind that likes to fiddle with your car all the time, then it shouldn't bother you too much. Just make sure you don't forget to change things around when the temps rise or fall.

[steeleshark2]

Originally Posted by axis

Yes they do BUT, the MAF and PCM are set up to make changes based on no unmetered air going into your engine. That 18% unmetered air is at X mass with this cold air. It will be considerably less mass come summer time. While your MAF and PCM will make changes to the METERED air, it will still add that same amount of fuel that you're adding now for the unmetered air.

People have been fooling the MAF for years to get extra power and it works pretty well. The problem is, once you start down this path, it will become labor intensive to keep your car running at peak performance. If you're the kind that likes to fiddle with your car all the time, then it shouldn't bother you too much. Just make sure you don't forget to change things around when the temps rise or fall.

I have logged in 90 degree weather and in 30 degree weather. When it is cold, I am at -18 on the injector calibration which brings my trims between 0 and -2. When it is hot, my injector calibration is -17 to get me there. That is the only difference between my summer and winter tunes to get everything I can out of it. My WOT did not need to change between the tunes in order to maintain a 12.5 to 12.8 afr.

[JANNETTYRACING]

Originally Posted by axis

There's a small problem with either method. If your MAF is not seeing all the air that's coming into the system, you're tuning your FTs at todays temps. What's gonna happen in a couple months when the temp goes back up to 70's-90's? The mass of the air at lower temps is considerably greater than the mass at higher temps. You shouldn't throw lean codes because you'll be running richer, but you'll be leaving HP on the table because of it. To run at peak efficiency, you'll need to send Ted or whoever the FT's over and over when the temps change considerably. That's not their fault as that's all you can do when you're tricking the MAF to gain HP.

Your MAF Curve was fine before you installed a Cold Air kit and works in all weather, elevation etc.

If the Cold air kit Skews the Maf Calibration that is TRICKING the MAF, not the other way around.

The MAF Calibration is the single most important measurement next to the injectors slopes.

All of the Fueling, Timing selection, load calculations, torque management, throttle control is all centered around the MAF Measurements.

You have to fix the problem you caused not change something else to fix the problem.

This sounds like our Doctors of today, I injured my Knee and it hurts, Here Take this Pill for the rest of your life and you will be fine.

Ted.

[axis]

Originally Posted by JANNETTYRACING

Your MAF Curve was fine before you installed a Cold Air kit and works in all weather, elevation etc.

If the Cold air kit Skews the Maf Calibration that is TRICKING the MAF, not the other way around.

The MAF Calibration is the single most important measurement next to the injectors slopes.

All of the Fueling, Timing selection, load calculations, torque management, throttle control is all centered around the MAF Measurements.

You have to fix the problem you caused not change something else to fix the problem.

This sounds like our Doctors of today, I injured my Knee and it hurts, Here Take this Pill for the rest of your life and you will be fine.

Ted.

Aren't we saying the same thing?

If his CAI is allowing in unmetered air, the only way to keep his car running well is to keep an eye on his FT's and adjust accordingly. This is assuming that he's not going to change CAI's.

[JANNETTYRACING]

Originally Posted by axis

Aren't we saying the same thing?

If his CAI is allowing in unmetered air, the only way to keep his car running well is to keep an eye on his FT's and adjust accordingly. This is assuming that he's not going to change CAI's.

I don't think so but you know how this typing thing goes, everything is subject to inturpratation.

Unmetered air in our world is a hole in the intake tube after the maf or a vacuum leak in the intake system.

In the above case the air is Measured, but incorrectly.

There are 2 ways to adjust the fuel trims, Recalibrate the MAF curve, or rescale the injectors.

Which one, in this case do you believe is the correct method?

Ted.

[axis]

Originally Posted by JANNETTYRACING

I don't think so but you know how this typing thing goes, everything is subject to inturpratation.

Unmetered air in our world is a hole in the intake tube after the maf or a vacuum leak in the intake system.

In the above case the air is Measured, but incorrectly.

There are 2 ways to adjust the fuel trims, Recalibrate the MAF curve, or rescale the injectors.

Which one, in this case do you believe is the correct method?

Ted.

We are saying the same thing. I call unmetered air, any air that isn't being accounted for. To me, it doesn't matter if it's a leak, removed honeycombs, too big a MAF section, or too free flowing of a filter. It's still unaccounted/unmetered air.

I wasn't sure if you could recalibrate the MAF for scenarios like this. Rescaling the injectors fixes the problem for todays temps and pressures but can't adjust for large temp swings since you still don't know how much air is coming in. I'm sure it's not a MASSIVE difference but it can be enough to cause problems. Have we figured out if this is JUST a filter problem? I know there have been issues with the powercore filter but have we found out if the MAF area circumference is the same as stock? I know if it's bigger, it can do the same thing.

[brtaus]

CE light came back on this morning but it seems, until I can get the tuner on the car, this is commonplace; for it to go on and off.

[JANNETTYRACING]

Originally Posted by brtaus

CE light came back on this morning but it seems, until I can get the tuner on the car, this is commonplace; for it to go on and off.

I can send you a tune with an SCT X3 or Diablosport to correct the problem

Ted.

[brtaus]

Originally Posted by JANNETTYRACING

I can send you a tune with an SCT X3 or Diablosport to correct the problem

Ted.

I have a Predator; which I just updated last night with the most current revision. I have yet to plug it into my car yet though. But, yeah, that would be Thanks.

[JANNETTYRACING]

Originally Posted by brtaus

I have a Predator; which I just updated last night with the most current revision. I have yet to plug it into my car yet though. But, yeah, that would be Thanks.

Your a step ahead, get me some data logs, and original back up and I will get you fixed up.

Ted.

[Tucker3000]

Originally Posted by Halltech

I agree. Ted hit the nail on the head.

Halltech tested 7 of the PowerCore filters in our initial product R&D and gave up on them. Going from our ISO5011 S&B filter to the Donaldson PowerCore would instantly drive the long term fuel trims on both banks to over +25% popping P0171 and P0174 lean codes.

As Ted said, this drives Open Loop up to way above 13:1, which is extremely risky. It is not too much airflow, it is turbulent airflow that gets past the defensive line (MAF) and is not measured. The O2 sensors see the leftover O2, and correct by adding fuel. When the estimated air vs. actual air disparity gets to the upper threshold of 25% added fuel, it pops a lean codes. The ECM assumes an airleak somewhere after the MAF.

Tuning will void your GM warranty if caught.

Interesting information, Thanks HallTech.

What I do not seem to understand is, why would anybody take off the factory intake with a paper filter and then buy a volant that then comes with another paper filter. The donaldson is a great filter, don't get me wrong, but it's not a performance filter. the donaldson is designed to go for a long time and to collect a ton of dirt, not to flow a ton of air. These filters are much better suited for a diesel application. So I am confused as to why someone would think a swapping to a different paper filter is going to make a difference in performance.

On top of it all, the volant needs a tune!