I thought no politics on the forum meant NO POLITICS ON THE FORUM!

[FenwickHockey65]

I thought this was fitting.

[Supermans]

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

Well, you certainly have a thoughtful proposition. Here's the previous issue we ran into, though...and I suspect even in your case, it would happen.

I'm sure you're aware that we did have a dedicated section at one point. There were two very large issues with it. One, people couldn't contain themselves. And we were left with massive cleanup jobs on our hands right in the middle of another mess. I think that within two weeks, we'd have kicked 90% of people out of the proposed section. Two, It spills out into the forum regardless of the civility. And then that pisses off all the people that intentionally stay out of the dedicated section. This, again, leaves us to clean up a mess.

Frankly, we felt bad that our members couldn't handle politics without resorting to....less-than-nice...comments all the time, but we haven't seen a change. I don't mean to pick on Emher, but I suspect that if this rule didn't exist for him to use as rationalization, he'd have retaliated in full-force. This is true of most members.

Let me set up a scenario for you -- suppose you create a political thread with 0 slant(this is important, because the OP sets the tone for the thread), and intend only to discuss a policy as it pertains to the auto Industry. Suppose it goes without a blasting post for three pages. Suppose it dies because the discussion reached it's end. This is fine. I don't believe any of the mods would have deleted it.

Suppose the above scenario happens again, but post 10 is a failure of a post. Rude, slanted, and absolutely uncalled for. We're back to square one.

And starting to kick people out of sections because they can't handle it is a good idea, but I don't think it's practical....it rubs people wrong, and it really doesn't remove the problem. Said punk will likely go into a different thread and blast somebody for getting kicked out of the section, plus, he/she had to create a problem to get kicked out in the first place....



That would be VERY appreciated, and it's really the easiest way to get a case-by-case issue solved quickly. Those reported posts are emailed to us, and I for one have my email open the entire time I'm on the forum.

I know you had a dedicated section, however allowing only rank and file members that have over six months of being here to be a part of and then controlling it by kicking out people who would get out of hand is something that wasn't done. If someone was to get out of hand, gets kicked out, and decides to continue ranting and calling a member names outside the area then they get further suspended and wouldn't be someone you would want in the forum anyways.. Most loyal members to this site would be respectful to each other regardless of their political affiliations. There are members here of all ages, and most trouble makers would be people that don't care if they get booted from the site. I think you guys should give it a try once more, especially with all that is going on politically. I think you would be surprised how quickly those immature folks get booted and how quickly the conversations become enlightening and useful to all the community.

[Milk 1027]

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

That would be VERY appreciated, and it's really the easiest way to get a case-by-case issue solved quickly. Those reported posts are emailed to us, and I for one have my email open the entire time I'm on the forum.

I get an automatic notification when im on my computer and on my phone when im away.

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by Supermans

I think you guys should give it a try once more, especially with all that is going on politically. I think you would be surprised how quickly those immature folks get booted and how quickly the conversations become enlightening and useful to all the community.

I can assure you it's something that regularly comes up...we (as a group) just see overwhelming evidence against doing it again...ever. But we will keep your thoughts in mind.

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by Emher

First off, thank you DGthe3 for re-opening the thread.

Thank you for clarifying it for me, I had misunderstood the rule. Sadly I still think it is mostly generalized statements that I have seen. And it's happened throughout the forums so it's not like it's an isolated phenomenon.

Recently the most shocking of which was in this thread http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=36730 in post nr 31 and 38. As you will see I reacted to those in my post nr 66. Those where really out of the blue and think you will agree where some pretty blatant generalizations and just plain ignorant.

And believe me, I want to talk these kinds of things trough. Just because someone doesn't agree with me politically doesn't mean I automatically think they're an idiot. Although some posts make me wonder.

I understand your frustration, go ahead and send me a PM if you want to vent.

Originally Posted by Emher

In the future I'll make sure to report posts that I find in violations of the rule.

Originally Posted by patriotpa

We should all help the mods with reporting posts that violate forum guidelines!

That would be much appreciated. As the forum has grown, we have come to rely more and more on reported posts.

Originally Posted by Supermans

I know you had a dedicated section, however allowing only rank and file members that have over six months of being here to be a part of and then controlling it by kicking out people who would get out of hand is something that wasn't done. If someone was to get out of hand, gets kicked out, and decides to continue ranting and calling a member names outside the area then they get further suspended and wouldn't be someone you would want in the forum anyways.. Most loyal members to this site would be respectful to each other regardless of their political affiliations. There are members here of all ages, and most trouble makers would be people that don't care if they get booted from the site. I think you guys should give it a try once more, especially with all that is going on politically. I think you would be surprised how quickly those immature folks get booted and how quickly the conversations become enlightening and useful to all the community.

As it says in the rules, we're welcome to the idea of bringing back political discussion once our members prove that they are mature enough to do so. However, I haven't seen any improvement to justify it yet. I supported the idea in the first place, and fought to keep it for a while until it was obviously beyond hope. I welcome the day when we can discus politics here again. But I don't think that is going to happen in the near future.

[Emher]

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

Well, you certainly have a thoughtful proposition. Here's the previous issue we ran into, though...and I suspect even in your case, it would happen.

I'm sure you're aware that we did have a dedicated section at one point. There were two very large issues with it. One, people couldn't contain themselves. And we were left with massive cleanup jobs on our hands right in the middle of another mess. I think that within two weeks, we'd have kicked 90% of people out of the proposed section. Two, It spills out into the forum regardless of the civility. And then that pisses off all the people that intentionally stay out of the dedicated section. This, again, leaves us to clean up a mess.

Frankly, we felt bad that our members couldn't handle politics without resorting to....less-than-nice...comments all the time, but we haven't seen a change. I don't mean to pick on Emher, but I suspect that if this rule didn't exist for him to use as rationalization, he'd have retaliated in full-force. This is true of most members.

Let me set up a scenario for you -- suppose you create a political thread with 0 slant(this is important, because the OP sets the tone for the thread), and intend only to discuss a policy as it pertains to the auto Industry. Suppose it goes without a blasting post for three pages. Suppose it dies because the discussion reached it's end. This is fine. I don't believe any of the mods would have deleted it.

Suppose the above scenario happens again, but post 10 is a failure of a post. Rude, slanted, and absolutely uncalled for. We're back to square one.

And starting to kick people out of sections because they can't handle it is a good idea, but I don't think it's practical....it rubs people wrong, and it really doesn't remove the problem. Said punk will likely go into a different thread and blast somebody for getting kicked out of the section, plus, he/she had to create a problem to get kicked out in the first place....

I find the idea of a separate section for politics very interesting. There's a similar section at another forum I've frequented for close to seven years now, there pretty much all political discussions get moved when they get too heated. You choose to join this part of the forum, and much more is allowed there and the moderation is also much more light in this section.

Myself has never seen any need to join this section because I don't want to bother with the stuff I know goes on in there (it was public at one point). I simply frequent the rest of the forums since most of the one can pass unscathed trough there and be met with mutual respect, regardless one ones political opinions.

And sorry to disappoint, but I make it a point never to sink to those levels. Simple bashing, bullying and name calling is something that was done to me for many years in school so I don't do that unto others. If there's something worth discussing, it's worth discussing in an intelligent way.

As for the last section, this is where we digress. I think a system where people get kicked would work. First you give them a few warnings and if they don't rectify their ways they get banned, either for a month, a few months or in really severe cases a permanent ban.


And thank you for the offer DGthe3, at the moment I'm fine but I may take you up on that some time.

[Supermans]

Originally Posted by Emher

As for the last section, this is where we digress. I think a system where people get kicked would work. First you give them a few warnings and if they don't rectify their ways they get banned, either for a month, a few months or in really severe cases a permanent ban.


And thank you for the offer DGthe3, at the moment I'm fine but I may take you up on that some time.

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

I can assure you it's something that regularly comes up...we (as a group) just see overwhelming evidence against doing it again...ever. But we will keep your thoughts in mind.

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

I think that within two weeks, we'd have kicked 90% of people out of the proposed section.

Ofcourse it will work. Or at least has a much much better chance of working than before. It just hasn't been tried here before in the manner I laid out. The mods keep saying it may be opened up in the future.. However what future are they waiting for? If you are planning to wait until politics in general die down, its not going to happen anytime soon with all the radical change that is happening. You will see that healthy discussion can occur and it would limit the amount of "political talk" that spills into other threads if people have a place to go when they want to discuss certain topics. Now that the Government has taken over GM and owns it, politics has become an integral part in GM's future decision making. If we don't like something that the Government is doing in regards to GM, the only way to come up with alternative solutions or ideas would be to go against current admins views which would lean to the left. In order to understand why certain decisions are made, politics may play a larger factor than anything else. Deleting or censoring any anti-Government rhetoric at that point to me is in a way protecting the administrations decisions with GM and squelching that kind of talk is not healthy. A healthy debate is sometimes needed and as time goes on will be even more important. Most people in this forum are good people and the vast majority would have a choice not to join if they want to stay away and the rest would participate without personal attacks or malice toward other members. Mentioning conservative and liberal ideas would be OK as long as they are generalized.. It could be done better than it was done before.


Hopefully Tran takes my idea into consideration when he does decide to try giving more "freedom" to the members of this forum. And again, you cannot compare what was done before with what I am proposing. I do remember the political area before..Anyone could post, even brand new members.. There was the biggest mistakes right from day one. You have to limit the members who can join to at least 6 months of being on the site and having over 1000 posts for example. Then when someone gets out of line, you ban them for good.. I honestly don't think 90% of the people would be banned like you think Dragoneye within the first few weeks.. If they are, it simply would make the job easier for the admins after week two .. At the moment, most people don't visit the off-topic section so this thread will not get read by the majority of visitors in this forum. A separate section would eventually get noticed and as time goes on, more people may wish to participate. It would allow this forum to grow a bit more and be ahead of the curve compared to the other GM sites that also block political talk for fear of scaring away advertisers. In this forums case, there are no advertisers at the moment.

[GTAHVIT]

You know what, lets try this again. It's not up for discussion, or debate. We've decided not to allow it. period.

If you don't like it you can go to a political forum and take your agenda there.

Junkie was 100% right.

IMO, This thread should have stayed closed. And in doing so we would have actually proven our resolve to eliminate the political debate on this site.

Sure we are tolerant with mustang owners, and chally owners, and GTR fans, and pick a car enthusiasts. THIS IS A CAR FORUM!!!!!

There is only one rule here that we enforce without debate. Politics. From either side of the issue. Dem, Rep, Green, Libertarian... It doesn't matter.

Time for all of us to get over it.

Closed.