lsx engine blows up--update

[CamaroFTW]

Originally Posted by Mkelcy

Again, this thread is just chock full of fail. I guess there are hot rodders and then there are guys with big egos, big wallets and no willingness to accept responsibility for their own screw-ups.

Have to agree with this wholeheartedly.

Anyone that does hardcore mods and then breaks something and proceeds to cry on the forums for their warranty is just making a fool of themselves by posting here. I mod, and if it breaks I will pay to fix. I wont cry to GM to fix it for me. Too many want to be in the game that can't afford it...simple as that. And no one knows the full story on any of these mods to post they are on the side of any OP's post when they sing the blues.

[robertway]

Originally Posted by Mkelcy

GMPP will be happy to sell him an LSx block with, let's say, 4.06" bores that will leave 0.388" between each cylinder which, when coupled with properly selected pistons, rings, crank, rods, cam, etc. they'd back up - WAIT, they do sell that engine, it's the LSx376. If he'd built that engine and it grenaded on the dyno, he'd have something to talk to GMPP about. Heck, if he'd merely cammed the LSX454 and it grenaded, I think GMPP would be talking. But he didn't - he picked the wrong engine for his build, and now wants GMPP to bail him out. I don't want that to happen becuase, frankly, I don't want to pay for the OP's mistake the next time I buy GMPP parts.

And you didn't answer my question about how you would handle a 1,200hp engine build for a customer.

I think even with the LSX376 GM would have an "out" if you read the warranty posted at the GMPP site it clearly states "Damage caused by a turbocharger, supercharger, nitrous oxide, or similar product, which is not an approved GM Performance Part or Accessory." I think that right there is enough for GM to peg anything that didn't come directly from them as killing the warranty. I wonder if this same thing happened with the GMPP LS9 blower on it what the GM response would be.

Not taking sides between the OP and GM here but just trying to point out the language that will be used by the legal folks if this winds up going that route.

[2010 SS RS]

Originally Posted by robertway

I think even with the LSX376 GM would have an "out" if you read the warranty posted at the GMPP site it clearly states "Damage caused by a turbocharger, supercharger, nitrous oxide, or similar product, which is not an approved GM Performance Part or Accessory." I think that right there is enough for GM to peg anything that didn't come directly from them as killing the warranty. I wonder if this same thing happened with the GMPP LS9 blower on it what the GM response would be.

Not taking sides between the OP and GM here but just trying to point out the language that will be used by the legal folks if this winds up going that route.

Robertsway....I think you areright on target with your thinking.
One main issue that was made from the OP is the written approval from Jamie Meyer from GMPP that said that this build would be fine. Now I am only basing this on the representation of the OP as it has not been posted here for anyone to read. All WE can read is what the specs are on the lsx454 and the warrantee. And it is pretty cut and dry. I think OP and builders frustration is the fact that the way the side wall crumbled that it was more than likely a defect. But since it broke under virturally unknown conditions and was admittedly blown at the time GM is staying at arms length.

I like a few others have stated...that I dont like the specs of the build anyway for other reasons far beyond the cr 11:1. The main reason is it is a NA replacement engine...period. I really dont care how many people have done this particular engine blown with nothing happening. All I can say is YET. Same goes with those all happy about blown ls3 stock bottom engines.
seems like they are all proud that they assembled it and got it to last long enough for the dyno run and huge HP numbers.

I say go take 100 runs at the drag strip all out and then come tell me how great the stock internals are on your 650 rwhp ls3.

Is the 454 an awesome block? OMG hell yeah...It just should be built for end application period. And that is not going to be a crate engine from GMPP.

[mikepage0007]

Originally Posted by Mkelcy

GMPP will be happy to sell him an LSx block with, let's say, 4.06" bores that will leave 0.388" between each cylinder which, when coupled with properly selected pistons, rings, crank, rods, cam, etc. they'd back up - WAIT, they do sell that engine, it's the LSx376. If he'd built that engine and it grenaded on the dyno, he'd have something to talk to GMPP about. Heck, if he'd merely cammed the LSX454 and it grenaded, I think GMPP would be talking. But he didn't - he picked the wrong engine for his build, and now wants GMPP to bail him out. I don't want that to happen becuase, frankly, I don't want to pay for the OP's mistake the next time I buy GMPP parts.

And you didn't answer my question about how you would handle a 1,200hp engine build for a customer.

ur killing me..i just read 7 pages of a bad ass build..i wanted to jump to the end just to satisfy my anticipation...only to find that when i got to last page, car is not done.....i suggest you some reading posts, get out there in your garage and finish that car...now i have to wait for your finished project...you should look up speedster, he is going thru the same withdraw of trying to get his car done ..in case u have not read http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=88877d ..sorry to go off topic..oh, 85 runs left @ track on blown ls3..will keep updating if i make it to 100 b4 i kill it..my honest opinion, i think that most people go sc over na , is driveability,, its hard to have a 600rwhp daily driver that gets 21mpg and does not sit and idle spitterin and sputtering..imo..ran my {then 560 rwhp} 600 miles and averaged 21.5 mpg doing between 65 -100 mph the whole trip..try to do that on a na 560rwhp camaro..

[2010 SS RS]

Originally Posted by mikepage0007

ur killing me..i just read 7 pages of a bad ass build..i wanted to jump to the end just to satisfy my anticipation...only to find that when i got to last page, car is not done.....i suggest you some reading posts, get out there in your garage and finish that car...now i have to wait for your finished project...you should look up speedster, he is going thru the same withdraw of trying to get his car done ..in case u have not read http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=88877d ..sorry to go off topic..oh, 85 runs left @ track on blown ls3..will keep updating if i make it to 100 b4 i kill it..my honest opinion, i think that most people go sc over na , is driveability,, its hard to have a 600rwhp daily driver that gets 21mpg and does not sit and idle spitterin and sputtering..imo..ran my {then 560 rwhp} 600 miles and averaged 21.5 mpg doing between 65 -100 mph the whole trip..try to do that on a na 560rwhp camaro..

Mine made it to about 25 runs before burning up a ring and losing compression on my number 4 cyl. same week a friend was on 15th run and cracked his number 5 cyl. So you have 85 runs left or you have made 85 runs? If it is the latter I am impressed.

[fastfaster]

Originally Posted by Mkelcy

This thread is just full of fail. Apparently Gen 5 owners don't know the difference between a block and an assembled engine, don't know that boosting an 11:1 engine's not the smartest thing to do, don't know how to read the GMPP warranty which excludes "Damage caused by a turbocharger, supercharger, nitrous oxide, or similar product, which is not an approved GM Performance Part or Accessory," and think "building" a 1,200 hp boosted engine means bolting on a blower and then crying when something breaks.

The GMPP catalog even says "Maximum 4.200" bore at .200" minimum wall thickness (naturally aspirated applications)." Does anyone really think that the 15 THOUSANDTHS difference between the LSX454 and the maximum bore FOR NA APPLICATIONS is going to let you bolt a blower on an 11:1 compression engine?

Two things - first, when you modify a factory engine, it's totally on you; second, NO ONE builds a 1,200 hp engine without carefully inspecting every part.

Again, this thread is just chock full of fail. I guess there are hot rodders and then there are guys with big egos, big wallets and no willingness to accept responsibility for their own screw-ups.

are you smarter than dr jamie meyer who is the gm performance integretion manager for the lsx-454?
the dr stated in print magazines and verbally to us that it was a sound plan.

if you disagree with the dr, you further my case to show dr jamie meyer was irresponsible stating:
(1) dr jamie meyer of "gm performance parts" states in print that if you put a power adder on the lsx-454 you can make 1300 hp.

(2) dr jamie meyer states IN PERSON to jannetty racing its ok to put a supercharger on the lsx-454 to make our power goals.

[CamaroSpike23]

Originally Posted by fastfaster

are you smarter than dr jamie meyer who is the gm performance integretion manager for the lsx-454?
the dr stated in print magazines and verbally to us that it was a sound plan.

if you disagree with the dr, you further my case to show dr jamie meyer was irresponsible stating:
(1) dr jamie meyer of "gm performance parts" states in print that if you put a power adder on the lsx-454 you can make 1300 hp.

(2) dr jamie meyer states IN PERSON to jannetty racing its ok to put a supercharger on the lsx-454 to make our power goals.

again.

1. he said that you can make 1300hp. not that you will.
point blank, its an open statement.

I can make 800hp by putting a 300hp progressive shot of nitrous on an LS3.


will a stock LS3 last with it? no



before I do it, will I rebuild the whole motor to handle it? yes.


2. did Jamie say that your warranty would be covered if you put a supercharger on it? did he give it to you in writing?

or was it
JR: "Hey, we're thinking about taking your LSX454 and putting XXXX supercharger on it to make our power goals, what do you think?"
JM: "Yeah, that that should work ok to make the power you want"



I honestly hope you've got more ammo than just these two statements because you will get eaten alive in court if thats all you are bringing to the table.


All that being said, I do personally feel that there was an issue with the block. and that should be the primary focus, not that your motor broke and should have held up because someone said it could 3 years ago.

[fastfaster]

Originally Posted by CamaroSpike23

again.

1. he said that you can make 1300hp. not that you will.
point blank, its an open statement.

you are simply being silly with semantics. stop sounding like a shady lawyer and read the below article quote:


MaxChevy Magazine Volume III, Issue 3, Page 52 Dr Jamie Meyer Interview “I don’t think we’ve ever had anything like what this LSX 454 will be with all-forged internals and cylinder heads that flow close to 400cfm. With a power adder on that, you’d be able to quickly create a 1,200 or 1,300 horsepower street car.”

[mikepage0007]

85 runs left..but if she goes, i can use most parts and build from block up...and reuse like you did...honestly appears that pistons and rings are really the weak link...i may even pull those components and replace...i have not seen ANYONE running 650rwhp break anything other than piston tops and rings...that is the weak link..in the ls3 ..i,m sure you could do crank and rods,other stuff, but i have seen ls3, stock rods holding up to 800rwhp b4 giving...if i get thru summer , i will revaluate my plans.....dr states you can make 1300 hp, but does he state that you can add a blower and SAFELY attain 1300hp under gm warranty..but i do believe that the ball is in your lap to go after dr and gm...and if dr{ gm representive} implied{ in writing} that lsx block could attain these #s.. i think dr , made a mistake by impying this ...and gm would prob kill this publicly if documents from gmpp{ dr} and court papers filed..it is a no win for gm, lawyer fees and negative publicity thru forums .. seems that there cost for a new shortblock and signed documents not to further this discussion and waiver from gm for any other builds..imo..just calling and bs , will not get it...they are calling your bluff because it is a fact that 95% of people , do not follow thru..they are playing the odds...i work for a 100 billiion $$$ company that is not responding to any threats, only if court action is initated will they resolve asap..unless it is ridiculous..your demands, for a new shortblock, are a cheap cost to go away..imo..btw , court filing fees are usually under 50.00..you could look up a paralegal in crigslist if you don,t have someone ..who will tell you how to file ..whats another 50-100$$$ to file..you can resell if they replace...

[CamaroSpike23]

Originally Posted by fastfaster

you are simply being silly with semantics. stop sounding like a shady lawyer and read the below article quote:


MaxChevy Magazine Volume III, Issue 3, Page 52 Dr Jamie Meyer Interview “I don’t think we’ve ever had anything like what this LSX 454 will be with all-forged internals and cylinder heads that flow close to 400cfm. With a power adder on that, you’d be able to quickly create a 1,200 or 1,300 horsepower street car.”

I've read it many times. but yet it still does not say that you WILL make that much power. not to mention, he doesnt say what power adder, nitrous, sc, tc?

its too open ended.

semantics or not. its still a weak argument.

If I walked up to you and told you I can fly an airplane, would you believe me?






But like I said before, I am with you that I think something was defective with the block, but solely using a quote from 3 years ago isnt going to hold much water.

[fastfaster]

Originally Posted by CamaroSpike23

I've read it many times. but yet it still does not say that you WILL make that much power.

ummm.......your kidding....right?

[mikepage0007]

Originally Posted by CamaroSpike23

again.

1. he said that you can make 1300hp. not that you will.
point blank, its an open statement.

I can make 800hp by putting a 300hp progressive shot of nitrous on an LS3.


will a stock LS3 last with it? no



before I do it, will I rebuild the whole motor to handle it? yes.


2. did Jamie say that your warranty would be covered if you put a supercharger on it? did he give it to you in writing?

or was it
JR: "Hey, we're thinking about taking your LSX454 and putting XXXX supercharger on it to make our power goals, what do you think?"
JM: "Yeah, that that should work ok to make the power you want"



I honestly hope you've got more ammo than just these two statements because you will get eaten alive in court if thats all you are bringing to the table.


All that being said, I do personally feel that there was an issue with the block. and that should be the primary focus, not that your motor broke and should have held up because someone said it could 3 years ago.

gm just coming out of bk, is not spending thousands on shareholders $$ on legal fees resarching claim...legal dept will look at loss of 1500 . gm cost and tell them to settle...court appearance for gm legal counsel is minimum 3k and up..gm does not hire 200.00hr office visit lawyers...but it does all come down to want this" dr" said and wrote..

[fastfaster]

when this issue goes to court, who says i'm going to settle for a block?
there are greater damages that i would pursue including but not limited to punitive damages!

[fastfaster]

Here is a sampling of references in the GMPP Catolog:
Second Page, Not Page Two: “A bomb-proof LSX block”
Page 186: Lsx Block Max Horsepower Rating 1500+
Page 192: “1700 horsepower turbo engine for an Outlaw drag racer, the LSX Bowtie Block is the foundation”
Page 213: LSX-454 Pistons- “dependable performance, even with high boost and nitrous-assisted applications”
2nd To The Last Page: “Because our new LSX blocks take the LS-series to the extreme, It’s engineered to take over 2000 horsepower”.
__________________


Page 213: LSX-454 Pistons- “dependable performance, even with high boost and nitrous-assisted applications”