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Old 11-06-2011, 06:45 AM   #1
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ZL1 exhaust pipe diameter?

Starting to do some homework on headers and system. Does anyone know the diameter of the pipes going to the back? The other is, I really don't care about sound as much as performance. I would like to keep the OE mufflers if possible, but I don't know how restrictive they are, I'm hoping they are not, seeing how they open up. Thanks for any advice.
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Old 11-06-2011, 08:21 AM   #2
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I imagine they're going to be probably about 3-inches. Z06 and ZR1 are about that and have dual-mode exhaust, too.

As far as restriction, I think the muffler mod' for those cars will apply for ZL1, too. I plan on doing it because I like the OEM set-up and it will be less expensive than a catback. Because of the modest bolt-on power improvements above CTS-V (through the active exhaust, dual-inlet intake system, EPS, and more efficient upper plenum and intercooler) I really think improvements will be in headers and cats'. Removing any resonators and a good X-pipe will probably be a good idea, too, just like they are for SS and V6 models.
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Old 11-06-2011, 08:33 AM   #3
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I imagine they're going to be probably about 3-inches. Z06 and ZR1 are about that and have dual-mode exhaust, too.

As far as restriction, I think the muffler mod' for those cars will apply for ZL1, too. I plan on doing it because I like the OEM set-up and it will be less expensive than a catback. Because of the modest bolt-on power improvements above CTS-V (through the active exhaust, dual-inlet intake system, EPS, and more efficient upper plenum and intercooler) I really think improvements will be in headers and cats'. Removing any resonators and a good X-pipe will probably be a good idea, too, just like they are for SS and V6 models.
I was advised by Lingenfelter that headers were a bad idea for the ZL1. They said they can make 700+ with just a cam, heads... No headers.
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Old 11-06-2011, 08:52 AM   #4
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but u def need to get some high flow cats those factory ones r way to restricted
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Old 11-06-2011, 09:10 AM   #5
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I imagine they're going to be probably about 3-inches. Z06 and ZR1 are about that and have dual-mode exhaust, too.

As far as restriction, I think the muffler mod' for those cars will apply for ZL1, too. I plan on doing it because I like the OEM set-up and it will be less expensive than a catback. Because of the modest bolt-on power improvements above CTS-V (through the active exhaust, dual-inlet intake system, EPS, and more efficient upper plenum and intercooler) I really think improvements will be in headers and cats'. Removing any resonators and a good X-pipe will probably be a good idea, too, just like they are for SS and V6 models.
Chuck, are you getting a ZL1 for sure?
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Old 11-06-2011, 09:20 AM   #6
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I was advised by Lingenfelter that headers were a bad idea for the ZL1. They said they can make 700+ with just a cam, heads... No headers.
Hmm I wonder why they recommend not getting LT headers.
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Old 11-06-2011, 10:51 AM   #7
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Probably because there are more cost effective HP gains to be had on a FI engine or the engine doesn't respond well to LT headers?
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Old 11-06-2011, 12:13 PM   #8
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Chuck, are you getting a ZL1 for sure?
One way or another

You?

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Probably because there are more cost effective HP gains to be had on a FI engine or the engine doesn't respond well to LT headers?
It seems counter-intuitive, but I'm certainly no expert. I understand LS7/LA
S9 manifolds flow extremely well and it remains to be seen what improvements to ZL1 manifolds have been. I know they're stainless, but haven't seen photos up close. They look pretty srandard to me...
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Old 11-06-2011, 12:16 PM   #9
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RADZ28, what is muffler mod? Also my buddy at GM who works along side with Pratt and Miller said to me a couple of months ago that a CAI, pulley and exhaust would easily make another 75 hp. I assumed he meant LT's and cat. I was hoping to keep the mufflers because I think they are pretty neat how they open up. And besides I want to keep it sneeky fast.
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Old 11-06-2011, 12:20 PM   #10
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One way or another

You?
I'm going to wait for 2013 for dust to settle. I'm also considering another car that is lighter (no, it's not GT500 )

I've had light & heavy cars, and for my taste, I want to stay around 3000lb or less. That's why I'm going to wait a bit longer for some new stuff showing up. Plus, I want to see how the Insurance companies are going to rate this monster (2 door, V8, Supercharged and over 500HP They're going to rape us ).
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Old 11-06-2011, 01:40 PM   #11
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RADZ28, what is muffler mod? Also my buddy at GM who works along side with Pratt and Miller said to me a couple of months ago that a CAI, pulley and exhaust would easily make another 75 hp. I assumed he meant LT's and cat. I was hoping to keep the mufflers because I think they are pretty neat how they open up. And besides I want to keep it sneeky fast.
I don't have pics' at this PC, however, the NNP (or NPP - I forget which code it is...) is the same active exhaust ZL1 is getting. Unless it's different internally, there is obviously one inlet, and two outlets, one of which has the valve in it. Inside the mufflers, there is a perforated pipe that comes off the inlet pipe and there are baffles, chambers, and packing. That perforated pipe will allow sound and gas to either travel through it, or dissapate inside the chambers, baffles, and packing. When the valve is closed, the sound and gas is forced through those chambers and such, and when open, the gas is allowed through one end of the perforated pipe and then out the other and then through the exhaust valve in the tip. Some of that exhaust and sound is still disipated through the perforations, however, a fair amount goes straight through (I imagine).

What the 'Vette guys have been doing is, is either cut the perforated pipe out and replace it with a solid pipe, or, throwing a couple band clamps around the perforated pipe. Then they have the mufflers welded up, and have pretty much straight-through mufflers with the valves open. Some guys also do either a fuse pull to keep the valves open all the time or buy controllers that allow them to control them from inside the car.

I'll try to remember to post a few pics' of the mods' I've found. They aren't difficult to find on the 'net, but I also had some pics' in another thread in this Section. I don't recall the topic, though, but I imagine searching for NPP or NNP will probably get you into that thread.

As far as mods', there is a company that I'm not going to post that works on Cadillacs for Cadillac and they have many mods' for LSA in CTS-V, and they should work directly on ZL1. They're getting something near 800 horse, I believe, on LSA through the 1900; that's pushing 19 psi, a complete ported SC, heads, cam, and supporting I/C, fuel, and exhaust mods', too. It'd be nice if they would come over as a Sponsor so I could share, but, you can search, too I know I'll be looking at pullies and some other stealth mods' so I don't get The Man mad at me I think I have a target on my back, lol. You gotta' pay to play!!!

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I'm going to wait for 2013 for dust to settle. I'm also considering another car that is lighter (no, it's not GT500 )

I've had light & heavy cars, and for my taste, I want to stay around 3000lb or less. That's why I'm going to wait a bit longer for some new stuff showing up. Plus, I want to see how the Insurance companies are going to rate this monster (2 door, V8, Supercharged and over 500HP They're going to rape us ).
AH!!! Yeah - for me - it's not because of choice, however, I am hoping they'll send the 5th Generation chassis out with a bang That's a good point about insurance though. I'm going to be leaving mine for weekends and fun only - no DD'ing
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Old 11-07-2011, 09:23 AM   #12
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Here are a few, and "THANKS!!!" Dragoneye for some of these, too!!!
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Old 11-07-2011, 08:38 PM   #13
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Thanks guys, that was perfect, now I understand.
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Old 11-07-2011, 08:50 PM   #14
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I personally wouldn't do the band clamp thing. If for some odd reason they loosened up you would get all kinds of rattling from the muffler. Weld the pipe in there, close it up, and forget about it.
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Old 11-07-2011, 08:56 PM   #15
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Hmm I wonder why they recommend not getting LT headers.
Probably so they can sell him a cam package they can make more money on. The LSA is a supercharged beast. Adding a set of headers will probably add 50rwhp
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Old 11-07-2011, 09:53 PM   #16
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Probably so they can sell him a cam package they can make more money on. The LSA is a supercharged beast. Adding a set of headers will probably add 50rwhp
I already have a camaro to race with built by them with every available extra power option. Actually the package that they offer for a very reasonable price with ported heads, cam, pulley and tuned right will make the ZL1 well over 700hp. At that level 50 more hp for around 2k for the headers and a little for labor is just not worth the added cost. The other thing is I really like my 2010 with headers but it is almost too loud. Not gonna be good for my ZL1.
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Old 03-05-2012, 03:56 PM   #17
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Headers on a s/c car are not great value. At or near stock power levels, the gains are minimal vs cost. A pulley change is way cheaper and easier. The GT500's have gone through the same thing for years. I've seen very little gain until they are wound-up pretty good, like 600whp good. Then, you see about 20-30whp over factory manifolds. The big benefit is that they lower boost for the same power, and sound better.
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Old 03-05-2012, 09:27 PM   #18
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Probably so they can sell him a cam package they can make more money on. The LSA is a supercharged beast. Adding a set of headers will probably add 50rwhp

NOPE
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Old 03-05-2012, 09:43 PM   #19
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They didn't on CTS-V...

I'll be pecking at low- hanging fruit, like shorties, X-pipe, and maybe those tight bends just fore of the mufflers. I have to appear smog-legal, FWIW...
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Old 03-24-2012, 10:59 PM   #20
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Kinda wondering why people are saying headers don't make power on a supercharged engine.
Boost is made in the intake manifold not the exhaust. The scavenging affect of headers may draw some pressure out during overlap, but the backpressure that creates more boost costs hp.
Long tube headers will need a tune to optimize the benefits of better flow, but they are definately not going to lose power over a set of manifolds, that is just ridiculous.
LT's will make more power even if boost is dropped slightly by scavenging. This can be countered with a pully up, with even more hp without increasing boost from stock.
Add in a tune to richen up the leaner environment and there is more power at your disposal.
Headers are ALWAYS better than manifolds for more power, cooler temps, and better sound, there's just some extra stuff to do to realise the full impact of the gains possible.
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Old 03-26-2012, 09:11 AM   #21
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Kinda wondering why people are saying headers don't make power on a supercharged engine.
Boost is made in the intake manifold not the exhaust. The scavenging affect of headers may draw some pressure out during overlap, but the backpressure that creates more boost costs hp.
Long tube headers will need a tune to optimize the benefits of better flow, but they are definately not going to lose power over a set of manifolds, that is just ridiculous.
LT's will make more power even if boost is dropped slightly by scavenging. This can be countered with a pully up, with even more hp without increasing boost from stock.
Add in a tune to richen up the leaner environment and there is more power at your disposal.
Headers are ALWAYS better than manifolds for more power, cooler temps, and better sound, there's just some extra stuff to do to realise the full impact of the gains possible.

I've noticed comments that LTs don't help on SC'd motors more than just our Community. I've seen similar comments on last generation Cobras and ZR1s. That is obviously up to a certain power-level, but it seems up to around where the majority of these might be turned up to, that the power-to-dollar ratio is not quite as high with some of these motors.

I'd like to know, too...
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Old 03-29-2012, 12:19 PM   #22
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Another clue to the fact that with proper application headers are better choice than other upgrades is that cam timing for blown motors generally have designed in less intake duration than exhaust duration respective to NA cams.
This is because blown motors do not need to rely on inertia to fill cylinders. The intake charge is under pressure, waiting to burst into the cylinder. The exhaust timing is generally longer duration to allow the engine to pump out the larger volume of exhaust created by the higher pressure relative to an naturally asperated exhaust charge. Some help is afforded by the overlap, but this method of gaining exh flow is at a cost to cylinder pressure and only logical purpose would be to cool the exhaust valve.
Headers have the bonus of cooler running generally speaking than manifolds, so in turn headers help with keeping temps down on the exhaust side.
Generally speaking and within reason, headers with the proper cam and more boost and fuel will help produce more power on a blown motor than a set of heads unless said original heads are extremely restricted.

Blower motors are more immune to head mods at least on the intake side, because if you are forcing the charge in under pressure, port design has little effect on volume within a reasonable range.

If you want to do anything to heads, port the exhaust as big as possible and as straight as possible with as large a valve as possible, with springs to match the cam.

I would spend the money on these other mods WELL in advance of spending money on heads.
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Old 04-01-2012, 03:48 PM   #23
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Smile

FYI the cat-back is the 2 1/2". I have one at the shop and am going to install it in my SS shortly.
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Old 04-08-2012, 10:42 AM   #24
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It's 2.5" stock?

Thanks
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Old 04-14-2012, 11:33 AM   #25
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Well 3" is an easy upgrade. Won't give much power, but most cat backs don't.
Just was involved with a GTR build that made 650whp. Changing the cat back from factory was worth 8whp on one run, but couldn't be repeated. All others showed 0-2 whp better. Exhaust is mostly for sound and weight on these FI cars.
The factory dual-mode is cool, but heavy.
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