5th Gen Camaro LS3 info from Chevy Hi-Po...READ

[TAG UR IT]

As we all know, we take what we read from Mags w/ a grain of salt. But, with all the talk going on around town that the LS3 is going in the new Camaro, it's great to read in the new Chevy Hi-Performace mags that not only is the LS3 going to be used, but that more info states there should be a supercharged version. Here's the article how it reads in the new mag. Enjoy!!!!

CHP June 07 page 90

Five years ago Chevrolet celebrated 35 years of the Camaro with a special Anniversary Edition '02. However, due to industry changes and low sales volume, Camaro production ended at the GM plant in Ste. Therese, Quebec, on August 28, 2002. The last car was a Z28 with an automatic transmission. At a Kruse International auction soon after, the car-which carried a $23,000 window sticker-sold for more than $70,000.

From 2002, our sources within Chevrolet have continued to tell us that although they couldn't speak specifically, there would be good news coming regarding a new Camaro. Now that day is rapidly approaching with an '09 Camaro on the way.

5th Gen
To learn about the fifth-gen Camaro we had to swear to secrecy, meaning that we would not reveal our contacts inside GM. Although the info we were given was not very specific, we are able to pass on some interesting 5th-gen information. What our sources inside GM did reveal was that the engine options for the '09 Camaro include two V6's and a few V8's. On the V8 table now is an LS3 engine with L92 cylinder heads. This engine will be installed in the Z28 and produce in the neighborhood of 400-450 horses. Additionally, there is talk about a supercharged 550hp Z28 engine with a Roots-style blower. Which ever generation Camaro you love, we can promise you that there will always be more driving fun ahead. CHP

INSIDE WORD
Chevrolet plans to design the 5th-Gen to be more refined than the Mustang. It will feature fully independent front and rear suspension. The platform this new Camaro will be built on is the Zeta, a shortened version of the current Cadillac STS. As a matter of fact, the new Camaro's design has involved a lot of Cadillac engineers. Chevrolet also plans to offer the 1LE package (severe-duty components) for police and limited retail purchases.



It's nice to hear that engineers from Cadillac are taking on a large role in making this Camaro. Could you imagine the QUALITY of a Cadillac in a Camaro??? :eek: This is truly going to be the best Camaro ever made in reliability, performance, aesthetics, quality, and the list goes on and on. This just gets me that much more stoked about the release!

[SSRich]

I hope the SS gets the 400-450 so i can afford it.

[Camvert2010]

I tell you reading this definitely sends goosebumps up my spine. Question though, what is a roots-style blower? I have an idea but not sure.

Thanks Tag

[alleykt123]

Originally Posted by TAG UR IT

…Additionally, there is talk about a supercharged 550hp Z28 engine with a Roots-style blower…

Now THAT'S what I'm talkin' about!!

(Yeah, I'm a lil' power-hungry )

[alleykt123]

Originally Posted by Camvert2010

…Question though, what is a roots-style blower?

From www.superchargersonline.com:

Roots Type Superchargers Explained
4/5/2002 9:14:00 PM

History

The roots style supercharger is the oldest type of supercharger and dates back to the early 1900's when it was first used as an industrial air-moving device. In the past 30 years or so, however, the roots style supercharger has undergone drastic changes and has become so efficient and quiet that it is now commonly used as a forced induction system for automotive applications. The roots style supercharger, while still the least thermally efficient supercharger design (versus centrifugal and screw-type designs), has found a home on board top fuel dragsters as well as on modern Mercedes, Ford, and GM passenger cars as an original equipment power adder.

How it Works
The roots type supercharger is two counter-rotating meshed lobed rotors. The two rotors trap air in the gaps between rotors and push it against the compressor housing as they rotate towards the outlet/discharge port. During each rotation, a specific fixed amount of air is trapped and moved to the outlet port where it is compressed, which is why the roots type supercharger falls under the broader catogory of fixed-displacement superchargers (like the twin screw supercharger).

Advantages & Disadvantages

The roots type supercharger is known for its ability to produce large amounts of boost while spinning at very low speeds. On an automotive application, a roots type supercharger can often make it's full (peak) boost by 2000 engine rpm. This characteristic has contributed to its success and popularity on the top fuel racing circuit and has made it ideal for use on smaller 4 and 6 cylinder engines that traditionally struggle in the lower half of the rpm range (and is why Jackson Racing uses a roots type Eaton compressor). Another advantageous characteristic of the roots type supercharger is its simplicity of design. The roots type supercharger has very few moving parts and spins at low rpms, making it one of the more reliable and durable supercharger designs.


The big disadvantage to the roots type supercharger is its thermal inefficiency - or its nature to produce high discharge temperatures - which robs power from the engine. With a roots type supercharger, an intercooler is almost always a necessity to bring the air charge temperatures down to an acceptable level. This poor thermal efficiency can be attributed to the fact that it has no internal compression (compression is done after the air leaves the discharge port). Additional heat is created by compressed (hot) air that leaks backwards past the rotors and heats up the temperature of the inlet charge.

Conclusion

The roots type supercharger is the oldest type of supercharger and still has its place in the automotive world on dragsters, smaller engines, and trucks - all of which are need power in the bottom half of the rpm range. Most major manufacturers have steered away from roots type superchargers likely because they create so much heat, even at low levels of boost. Like the screw-type supercharger, it is also difficult to create very high levels of boost with a roots type supercharger. Nonetheless, several manufacturers (Magnuson/MagnaCharger, Saleen, Allen, Jackson - all use an Eaton roots compressor) have been able to design automotive supercharger systems that make good use of the roots type compressor's advantages while overcoming its shortcomings. If you do purchase a roots-type supercharger, expect incredible power gains right off of idle. You can also be assured that you will have one of the most simple and dependable superchargers available, which is why automobile manufacturers (GM, Ford, Mercedes) generally choose roots compressors for OE applications. An intercooler will most likely be necessary at boost levels above 6psi with a roots supercharger.

[TAG UR IT]

Originally Posted by Camvert2010

I tell you reading this definitely sends goosebumps up my spine. Question though, what is a roots-style blower? I have an idea but not sure.

Thanks Tag

YOU BET!!! I felt the same way when I pulled my mags (Car Craft and Chevy Hi-Performace) out of the mail last night quickly thumbing through them to see if they had anything printed about the 5th-Gen. They usually do and it's usually the same old info we already know. We kinda knew this info was the current rumor, but added info about the roots style blower kinda suprised me. Also, it was reassuring to read more about the LS3, hp levels, and names. I hate leaked info because we never know if it's true or not, but it at least passes the time!

[TAG UR IT]

"If you do purchase a roots-type supercharger, expect incredible power gains right off of idle. You can also be assured that you will have one of the most simple and dependable superchargers available, which is why automobile manufacturers (GM, Ford, Mercedes) generally choose roots compressors for OE applications."

[Casull]

Originally Posted by TAG UR IT

5th Gen
To learn about the fifth-gen Camaro we had to swear to secrecy, meaning that we would not reveal our contacts inside GM. Although the info we were given was not very specific, we are able to pass on some interesting 5th-gen information. What our sources inside GM did reveal was that the engine options for the '09 Camaro include two V6's and a few V8's. CHP

"A few V8s" huh? that kindof worries me a little. That means that the L98 that they are using in the G8 is most likely in the works as an entry level V8 option, which means we will probably not be able to get into an LS3 for under $35k...

That is really going to put a hurt on the pocketbook. If that is the case, then i may not be getting a 5th gen for a few years until I can save up the price difference.... guess we will have to wait and see.

[3whiterag]

Sorry! I just couldn't contain myself!

[stevenm357]

for some reason all of this news of a "super charged" version and everything has my wallet screaming. thinking that "more refined than mustang" means "more expensive"

roots.... means you can replace it with other super chargers and easily add TONS of horse power, same type of S/C the mustang has.

[Mr. Wyndham]

hmm...i can honestly say that I don't know what to make of this....

[Camvert2010]

When money is involved its ALWAYS hard! How much $ will it cost us to get the best (best as in what we can afford)? When the company is against the mustang, challenger, & foreign cars its tough for the company to put out a great vehicle and keep the price in a competitive range. Priced to high you start to look into another class of vehicles all together. Then you have to the problem of finding a dealer that isnt going to price gouge us.
Of course time will only tell

Sounds like there are going to be many different option packages though.

I wonder if there is going to be some kind of a limited edition camaro?

[3whiterag]

Here is my take on things for what it is worth. The base Camaro will be competitive with the base mustang, each different performance or option package of the Camaro will be comparable to the similar mustang. Whatever the top mustang is, the same Camaro will be similarly priced, ( would this be the GT500 with 500hp.?) Now for instance, if you want the Super Camaro with a lot more Hp. than anything else out there at the time, then yes, you will have to pay for it. Same as it has always been and I have to believe that GM is NOT stupid and will not overprice the Camaro, as that would be defeating itself. They have too much time and money invested in this vehicle and platform to do something like that. As for dealers, that is another problem. Best advice I have is to shop around until a dealer is found that is not gouging the customer. He will become very popular when word gets out. In the meantime, let's all think POSITIVE thoughts........hhhhhhmmmmmmmmmmm and stay cool

[Casull]

Originally Posted by 3whiterag

Here is my take on things for what it is worth. The base Camaro will be competitive with the base mustang, each different performance or option package of the Camaro will be comparable to the similar mustang. Whatever the top mustang is, the same Camaro will be similarly priced, ( would this be the GT500 with 500hp.?) Now for instance, if you want the Super Camaro with a lot more Hp. than anything else out there at the time, then yes, you will have to pay for it. Same as it has always been and I have to believe that GM is NOT stupid and will not overprice the Camaro, as that would be defeating itself. They have too much time and money invested in this vehicle and platform to do something like that. As for dealers, that is another problem. Best advice I have is to shop around until a dealer is found that is not gouging the customer. He will become very popular when word gets out. In the meantime, let's all think POSITIVE thoughts........hhhhhhmmmmmmmmmmm and stay cool

And we still have assurance that the LS3 is a 450 HP engine, right???

[3whiterag]

Originally Posted by 3whiterag

Sorry! I just couldn't contain myself!

That about says it all!!!!

[TAG UR IT]

But I bet they run the LS3 base stock for the entry level V8...400hp. Then, the real LS3 is released as the upper level V8 pushing 450hp. Then, the SC'd at 550hp. Unless they really do have 3 different V8's......C'mon 3Whiterag...we promise we won't tell!!!

[The_Stache]

my biggy question 3whiterag is gm considering the ls3 the base v8 (aka the base mustang) for price or is the ls3(supercharged or not) the gt500 competition?

If the ls3 is in the gt500 range.. my guess is the l98 is the base v8!?!?!

PS - i really wish the ls3 would be the base v8

[Casull]

Originally Posted by diarmadhi

my biggy question 3whiterag is gm considering the ls3 the base v8 (aka the base mustang) for price or is the ls3(supercharged or not) the gt500 competition?

If the ls3 is in the gt500 range.. my guess is the l98 is the base v8!?!?!

PS - i really wish the ls3 would be the base v8

I doubt 3whiterag would be able to answer that... it seems as though only those who are directly involved with the Camaro project know those details.

I would really like to see the LS3 as the base V8; however, just about every source has mentioned multiple V8 options. Therefore, I would think it is a good bet that there will be two different V8s and the lineup will include the L98, the LS3, and a s/c LS3.

If they are going to offer the L98 as a base V8, then the LS3 option had better come with some worthwhile upgrades (better suspension, bigger brakes, etc) in order to justify the price differential because there is no way the engine alone is any more expensive to produce.

I really wish we had an idea of pricing though. If there will be an L98 base V8, then it will likely start around $29-30k. I would then assume that the LS3 will start at $35k, which is my upper most limit... so we will see.

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by diarmadhi

my biggy question 3whiterag is gm considering the ls3 the base v8 (aka the base mustang) for price or is the ls3(supercharged or not) the gt500 competition?

If the ls3 is in the gt500 range.. my guess is the l98 is the base v8!?!?!

PS - i really wish the ls3 would be the base v8

First of all - a.k.a. means "also known as". I hope to God Camaro isn't going to be known as Mustang.... I think the only way Mustang will make it's way into the Camaro name is with killer after it.

Second - I don't think SS (assuming this is Top Dog) will be the equivalant of a GT500. That may have to be a limited Production Camaro model, in order to compete. My belief is that 'SS' is going to be an apperance/perfomance package again. Not a-whole-nother trim level. Chevrolet says they are going to take it easy with the SS this and SS that. If they weren't careful we may have ended up with an Uplander SS. So to make a Camaro SS when Z28 already has dibbs would be kind of pointless IMO.

And as far as I have heard: The L98 is supposed to be the foundation of the LS3 (IMO the high-end Camaro V8)- keep in mind the L98 is still a truck engine so.............

[Casull]

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

First of all - a.k.a. means "also known as". I hope to God Camaro isn't going to be known as Mustang.... I think the only way Mustang will make it's way into the Camaro name is with killer after it.

Second - I don't think SS (assuming this is Top Dog) will be the equivalant of a GT500. That may have to be a limited Production Camaro model, in order to compete. My belief is that 'SS' is going to be an apperance/perfomance package again. Not a-whole-nother trim level. Chevrolet says they are going to take it easy with the SS this and SS that. If they weren't careful we may have ended up with an Uplander SS. So to make a Camaro SS when Z28 already has dibbs would be kind of pointless IMO.

And as far as I have heard: The L98 is supposed to be the foundation of the LS3 (IMO the high-end Camaro V8)- keep in mind the L98 is still a truck engine so.............

Just a point of clarification.

Actually, I believe the L98 is a slightly modified version of the L76... both of which have been used exclusively in the Holdens (until the G8 makes its debut, and until the L76's production on the GM trucks). I think the L98 is actually on its way out and is being replaced with the L76 which has a slightly higher displacement, but, ironically, makes slightly less power. - although power is being ramped up for the G8 just slightly to match the L98's power.

I believe the L92 (the 6.2L LS3 based block used in the Cadillac's) is the one you were referring to...

[3whiterag]

How about this scenario...... Three V8 choices. Makes sense to me. Can you guys figure out which ones they are or they may be? We know there are going to be some six cylinder models, and a base v8. Go from there. I know what we are building but I can only surmise where they are going.... Isn't this exciting? Oh yeah! You guys are jumping all over the place. Sit down and relax and think about it. Common sense prevails....then do the opposite.

[3whiterag]

Originally Posted by diarmadhi

my biggy question 3whiterag is gm considering the ls3 the base v8 (aka the base mustang) for price or is the ls3(supercharged or not) the gt500 competition?

If the ls3 is in the gt500 range.. my guess is the l98 is the base v8!?!?!

PS - i really wish the ls3 would be the base v8

Lets get one thing straight, the GT500 is not the base mustang so why would the LS3 be in the base Camaro?

[Mr. Wyndham]

True Casull, my bad. I was thinking of the L92.........(grumble) stupid codes.

[Casull]

Originally Posted by 3whiterag

Lets get one thing straight, the GT500 is not the base mustang so why would the LS3 be in the base Camaro?

Well, it is going to take more than just the LS3 to compete witht he GT500... that s/c version we keep hearing about would do the trick. The LS3 alone will just not do - it would compete somewhere between the GT and the GT500...

[3whiterag]

Originally Posted by Casull

Well, it is going to take more than just the LS3 to compete witht he GT500... that s/c version we keep hearing about would do the trick. The LS3 alone will just not do - it would compete somewhere between the GT and the GT500...

I guess that would be your answer then...

This is how I see it, keep in mind no insider info here, this is just me babbling...

Base v8 = LH6 5.3L DoD 310? hp.
upgraded V8 = LS3 450hp.
Camaro SS = a whole lotta Hp.

How is that?