Electric Vehicles

[silversleeper]

Remind me next time I go to the hospital to more closely check nametags. If it says Nurse Nancy I need to say, It's ok I'm good until the next shift whatever it is.

[SSE 4 2SS]

Originally Posted by Malbjey

The thing is, people are already following rules when it comes to what octane/type of gas to put in their ICE cars. Putting in the wrong fuel can be even more of a disaster/headache than letting your EV charge past 80%. If someone can't understand 'the battery is designed to charge quickly up to 80%' then they should be having serious problems understanding other aspects of operating a motor vehicle in general.

I have no idea what area you fill up in, but I've had people ask me, "what gas should I put in," and or most of them, the majority, put in the cheapest grade.

You're obviously somewhat of a car guy, and maybe it's the neighborhood where you fill up, but I know far too many people, from literally all over the country, to whom a car is as was mentioned earlier, an appliance, that you put smelly stuff in it and it goes, until the low fuel light comes on, then you get more.

I've been to many many racing events, as a racer, where fans of racing are present, and in an effort to help, they offer to go to the local gas station or convenience store for 5 gallons of gas for my race car. These are people that consider themselves car people. My car runs on 117 octane race fuel. The local fuel and choke doesn't carry that....

As for the electronics, (Infotainment) most people that have moderately higher end systems, literally have the ability to put in an address for the destination, or get blaring music from the speakers.

Am I saying people are dumb, NO, but I am saying the majority are lazy, too lazy to read the manual, not capable of understanding it if they do read it, or just don't care...

Some of it honestly in my opinion is virtue signaling. Electricity from these silly wind farms may be moderately clean, until you try to dispose of the blades which have a limited lifespan. Coal burning plants (HERE, in the US) are cleaner than they were years ago, but they still emit a lot of stuff into the atmosphere.


And how many millions of gallons of diesel are burned each day to dig the minerals needed for the batteries that you should only charge to "80 " percent.

There is so much false or misleading information out there. It's disgusting... I know electric cars are probably the wave of the future, but we are a long way off, if for no other reason than our grid is decades away from supporting battery powered vehicles. As long as we in the "West" want shiny high tech things, those in the "East" will continue to build coal burning plants with no filtration, or build factories that dump into the environment.

[0stones0]

Originally Posted by SSE 4 2SS

I have no idea what area you fill up in, but I've had people ask me, what gas should I put in, and or most of them, the majority, put in the cheapest grade.


You're obviously somewhat of a car guy, and maybe it's the neighborhood where you fill up, but I know far too many people, from literally all over the country, to whom a car is as was mentioned earlier, an appliance, that you put smelly stuff in it and it goes, until the low fuel light comes on, then you get more.

I've been to many many racing events, as a racer, where fans of racing are present, and in an effort to help, they offer to go to the local gas station or convenience store for 5 gallons of gas for my race car. These are people that consider themselves car people. My car runs on 117 octane race fuel. The local fuel and choke doesn't carry that....

As for the electronics, (Infotainment) most people that have moderately higher end systems, literally have the ability to put in an address for the destination, or get blaring music from the speakers.

Am I saying people are dumb, NO, but I am saying the majority are lazy, too lazy to read the manual, not capable of understanding it if they do read it, or just don't care...

Some of it honestly in my opinion is virtue signaling. Electricity from these silly wind farms may be moderately clean, until you try to dispose of the blades which have a limited lifespan. Coal burning plants (HERE, in the US) are cleaner than they were years ago, but they still emit a lot of stuff into the atmosphere.


And how many millions of gallons of diesel are burned each day to dig the minerals needed for the batteries that you should only charge to "80 " percent.

There is so much false or misleading information out there. It's disgusting... I know electric cars are probably the wave of the future, but we are a long way off, if for no other reason than our grid is decades away from supporting battery powered vehicles. As long as we in the "West" want shiny high tech things, those in the "East" will continue to build coal burning plants with no filtration, or build factories that dump into the environment.

+1

[genxer]

Originally Posted by SSE 4 2SS

I have no idea what area you fill up in, but I've had people ask me, "what gas should I put in," and or most of them, the majority, put in the cheapest grade.

You're obviously somewhat of a car guy, and maybe it's the neighborhood where you fill up, but I know far too many people, from literally all over the country, to whom a car is as was mentioned earlier, an appliance, that you put smelly stuff in it and it goes, until the low fuel light comes on, then you get more.

I've been to many many racing events, as a racer, where fans of racing are present, and in an effort to help, they offer to go to the local gas station or convenience store for 5 gallons of gas for my race car. These are people that consider themselves car people. My car runs on 117 octane race fuel. The local fuel and choke doesn't carry that....

As for the electronics, (Infotainment) most people that have moderately higher end systems, literally have the ability to put in an address for the destination, or get blaring music from the speakers.

Am I saying people are dumb, NO, but I am saying the majority are lazy, too lazy to read the manual, not capable of understanding it if they do read it, or just don't care...

Some of it honestly in my opinion is virtue signaling. Electricity from these silly wind farms may be moderately clean, until you try to dispose of the blades which have a limited lifespan. Coal burning plants (HERE, in the US) are cleaner than they were years ago, but they still emit a lot of stuff into the atmosphere.


And how many millions of gallons of diesel are burned each day to dig the minerals needed for the batteries that you should only charge to "80 " percent.

There is so much false or misleading information out there. It's disgusting... I know electric cars are probably the wave of the future, but we are a long way off, if for no other reason than our grid is decades away from supporting battery powered vehicles. As long as we in the "West" want shiny high tech things, those in the "East" will continue to build coal burning plants with no filtration, or build factories that dump into the environment.

If someone does a lot of highway miles they fall short, even as a money saving appliance. If someone's above average on cents/kWhr electric rate, meager savings may never overcome the price premium/depreciation/registration.
State average costs,
electric: https://www.saveonenergy.com/resourc...ills-by-state/
gas: https://gasprices.aaa.com/state-gas-price-averages/

[genxer]

Some Tesla forum chart/graph/reads on...
-range loss at highway speeds: https://www.teslaownersonline.com/th...&sortby=oldest
-Wh/mile use efficiency vs. speed: https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/thre...80-mph.266680/
-car use versus (+17%) charge use: https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/thre...he-app.329663/

[docwra]

Originally Posted by genxer

If someone does a lot of highway miles they fall short, even as a money saving appliance. If someone's above average on cents/kWhr electric rate, meager savings may never overcome the price premium/depreciation/registration.
State average costs,
electric: https://www.saveonenergy.com/resourc...ills-by-state/
gas: https://gasprices.aaa.com/state-gas-price-averages/

Just checked this as it sounded interesting, cost is a big attraction here.
In UK using overnight home charging cost for 250 miles in my etron is about GBP 7.50 @ 8.5p per Kw.
Cost for 250 miles an a gas engine Q7 is around GBP 70 @ GBP 7 per gallon, thats a hell of a difference, like 90%.

If I was in Hawaii paying 45c per Kw and $4.60 a gallon the EV would only be $14 cheaper, roughly 25%, big difference.

In summary you guys pay too much for electricity and not enough for gas, and Id take Hawaii over here any day

[silversleeper]

Originally Posted by docwra

Just checked this as it sounded interesting, cost is a big attraction here.
In UK using overnight home charging cost for 250 miles in my etron is about GBP 7.50 @ 8.5p per Kw.
Cost for 250 miles an a gas engine Q7 is around GBP 70 @ GBP 7 per gallon, thats a hell of a difference, like 90%.

If I was in Hawaii paying 45c per Kw and $4.60 a gallon the EV would only be $14 cheaper, roughly 25%, big difference.

In summary you guys pay too much for electricity and not enough for gas, and Id take Hawaii over here any day

My local rate is 12-14cents per kw and gas over $4 a gal. That works out to about 6 times cheaper for me except solar makes it free unless you average out the cost of solar over its 25+ year lifetime which also feeds my house.
The EV leases are similar or cheaper than ICE now so unless someone purchased an EV years ago before price drops or are trying to trade one in to a dealer that is not a factor either. Insurance and registration are similar for me to the ICE vehicles of similar value. The repair costs in an accident are higher for the insurance companies but theft rate near zero so they don't need to raise the rates to compensate for that. Efficiency at 80mph drops a lot but so do the mpg on my ICE cars. I don't see that as a big factor

[genxer]

Originally Posted by silversleeper

My local rate is 12-14cents per kw and gas over $4 a gal. That works out to about 6 times cheaper for me except solar makes it free unless you average out the cost of solar over its 25+ year lifetime which also feeds my house.
The EV leases are similar or cheaper than ICE now so unless someone purchased an EV years ago before price drops or are trying to trade one in to a dealer that is not a factor either. Insurance and registration are similar for me to the ICE vehicles of similar value. The repair costs in an accident are higher for the insurance companies but theft rate near zero so they don't need to raise the rates to compensate for that. Efficiency at 80mph drops a lot but so do the mpg on my ICE cars. I don't see that as a big factor

I've never leased. Teslas seem to be similar with used price to Audi or BMW. The comparison I was going for is to the appliance level mainstream. Past also considering utility, vehicle choices are much more subjective. I lean to it generally not being worth going after the last few % of efficiency.

I re-found a couple links I should have added yesterday. There's good anecdotal posts on efficiency versus speed for different vehicles on the reddit link. My best (combustion) vehicle is down 10-15% from rated efficiency at 80 mph.


https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/thre...speeds.307724/
https://www.reddit.com/r/TeslaModelY...ncy/?rdt=35713

[genxer]

Originally Posted by docwra

Just checked this as it sounded interesting, cost is a big attraction here.
In UK using overnight home charging cost for 250 miles in my etron is about GBP 7.50 @ 8.5p per Kw.
Cost for 250 miles an a gas engine Q7 is around GBP 70 @ GBP 7 per gallon, thats a hell of a difference, like 90%.

If I was in Hawaii paying 45c per Kw and $4.60 a gallon the EV would only be $14 cheaper, roughly 25%, big difference.

In summary you guys pay too much for electricity and not enough for gas, and Id take Hawaii over here any day

Its 19 cents per kWh here, and I make too many long-ish trips anyway.

[olrocker]

Originally Posted by docwra

Ypu guys pay….. not enough for gas

You’ll have a very hard time convincing that to anyone in America.

Prices could very well go lower from their current prices.

[ZED SLED]

Originally Posted by docwra

In summary you guys pay too much for electricity and not enough for gas, and Id take Hawaii over here any day

A good portion of the US sits on an ocean of crude, so we should be paying what they pay in Kuwait.

[silversleeper]

Originally Posted by genxer

I've never leased. Teslas seem to be similar with used price to Audi or BMW. The comparison I was going for is to the appliance level mainstream. Past also considering utility, vehicle choices are much more subjective. I lean to it generally not being worth going after the last few % of efficiency.

I re-found a couple links I should have added yesterday. There's good anecdotal posts on efficiency versus speed for different vehicles on the reddit link. My best (combustion) vehicle is down 10-15% from rated efficiency at 80 mph.


https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/thre...speeds.307724/
https://www.reddit.com/r/TeslaModelY...ncy/?rdt=35713

Well that was an interesting chart. I've seen something like it but this is clearer. Unexpected to see the dip. The heat AC must be why there is a dip, or headlights and such. I've noticed a dip in my ICE cars about 48mph after the torq conv has locked and its in top gear but not fighting as hard against aero drag as higher speeds. Also the engine must be in a reasonably efficient rpm there above idle but not high speeds. Funny to see double the normal mpg but it isn't worth my time to drive like that nor safe or appreciated on the highways or 55+ roads. My long hi speed drives anecdotally confirms this data.
I've never leased either as it's not the best use of money. It would have been viable when I kept switching cars many years ago before I became a saver.

[olrocker]

Most Americans have no idea about petrol fuel either.

So many people insist on using 91+ in cars that are designed on 87 and insist that gives them an extra 20 hp.

Conversely, there are many people who refuse to use 91+ on high compression engines because they want to “save the money” because “it’s a waste and won’t hurt anything”.

And some of you guys think they’re smart enough for a ammeter that shows 80% charge to actually be “full” and know not to go over it all the time

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by olrocker

Most Americans have no idea about petrol fuel either.

So many people insist on using 91+ in cars that are designed on 87 and insist that gives them an extra 20 hp.

Conversely, there are many people who refuse to use 91+ on high compression engines because they want to “save the money” because “it’s a waste and won’t hurt anything”.

And some of you guys think they’re smart enough for a ammeter that shows 80% charge to actually be “full” and know not to go over it all the time

I agree with so much of this it’s scary! I know people who put 91+ in when they don’t need it and I know people who “save money” by putting 87 in vehicles that call for 91+ because “I don’t need the performance and the spark curves will adjust”.

But even those people could set their charge level to 80% when they buy the car and never touch it again for as long as they own the car. And they would be in a better position than the people I just described in the last paragraph.