Camaro VS Mustang Mega Thread

[Fraxum]

Originally Posted by steeleshark2

(Edited)
Stock gearing is low 3.15 for the A6 and 3.31 for the M6 with an upgrade option of 3.55 or 3.73 for the M6 only. Which ones? If he has the 3.31, then I think you would have him.

Some of the fastest 5.0 times are with the 3.31s.

Edit: Already been said. Oops.

[Fraxum]

Both cars do not seem all that far apart. SS owners can win by being the better driver.

[BigDan]

^ only to a certain limit though, a lot of SS owner's are being held back by their rear suspension and drag tire selection and once they hook there gonna break unless you invest even more $$$ in beefing up the factory IRS with better shaft's, bushings, gear's, braces, ect where as the the 5.0's are ripping off 1.5-1.6 60 foot's and lifting a front tire with just sticky tires, CAI and tune.

The 5.0L is a better design set up for drag racing vs the SS so its hard to say its up to the driver once both cars are tuned and pushing the limits of the SS factory IRS during a hard launch. If the SS still had a SRA and was a few hundred pounds lighter like the 4th gen SS then sure it would be a drivers race, but the 5th gen SS went soft, where as the GT stuck to its roots and wasn't made from the same platform as a sedan.

Now I'm strictly talking about 1/4 drag racing since comparing freeway roll race's is against forum rules.

[mikeSS]

Originally Posted by BigDan

^ only to a certain limit though, a lot of SS owner's are being held back by rear suspension and drag tire selection and once they hook there gonna break unless you invest even more $$$ in beefing up the factory IRS with better shaft's, bushings, gear's, braces, ect where as the the 5.0's are ripping off 1.5-1.6 60 foot's and lifting a front tire with just sticky tires, CAI and tune.

lol hopefully chevy can make some upgrades soon... seems ford really nailed it with the new 2011 gt500 and gt

[ULTRAZLS1]

Originally Posted by BigDan

^ only to a certain limit though, a lot of SS owner's are being held back by rear suspension and drag tire selection and once they hook there gonna break unless you invest even more $$$ in beefing up the factory IRS with better shaft's, bushings, gear's, braces, ect where as the the 5.0's are ripping off 1.5-1.6 60 foot's and lifting a front tire with just sticky tires, CAI and tune.

+1

And even then the strength of the stock differential housing has not been proven. It is holding in auto cars to a certain extent (nearly 9 second cars) so far...but I am still wondering about hard launches with powerful m6 cars.
Also...the 4.10 gears which would help the LS3 cars out a ton...are not holding so far either :( I would love to do a H/C build with 4.10 gears and 17 inch bogarts and dump the clutch at 4500 and see how she does.....but I need a little more time to get a clear picture of the proper build, what wont hold etc etc etc. In time....In time....its just people arent tracking the car as heavily as the mustang because of all these reasons. but more and more will eventually.

[ULTRAZLS1]

Originally Posted by mikeSS

lol hopefully chevy can make some upgrades soon... seems ford really nailed it with the new 2011 gt500 and gt

Yes but you have to remember....

Suiting the needs of the strip crowd is a VERY small portion of the market/sales of the camaro. I am not sure how much GM will do in terms of strip readiness but you never know. At the end of the day it is still an IRS car. They should fine tune its handling and maybe add a little more power, gear options etc. Hone in on what the car can have the ability to do exceptionally well...handle/perform all around.

If they want to win the drag strip war they will have to do it with a ~3500lb alpha platform camaro. Using lighter weight materials and dropping the weight of the current car isnt likely. It is very expensive and would not improve sales very much. Same with strengthening parts for the strip...not going to help sales. If the car handles better and looks better on paper it will do more for sales than the previous IMO. The interior upgrade could be a big hit as well (even though I like mine)

Even if the 2012 camaro edges out the mustang GT stock for stock (which will still be cool for bragging rights)...the edge will still go to the mustang for the most part at the track for the average person/build due to reasons mentioned before. For this generation the mustang will have the edge at the strip. And hey...thats fine with me...the camaro still rocks. Ill put this car up against any mustang NA for NA mod for mod on the street in most situations etc(win or lose ill hold my own). And the power they make with H/C with pump gas and stock bottom end with simple off the shelf parts (up to ~530rwhp) is nothing to sneeze at. That is hard to beat NA for NA as well.

For the most part the camaro is a huge success. It is doing far better than the 4th gen before it (especially considering the economy) and it was better suited for the track.

[a_Username]

Originally Posted by BigDan

^ only to a certain limit though, a lot of SS owner's are being held back by rear suspension and drag tire selection and once they hook there gonna break unless you invest even more $$$ in beefing up the factory IRS with better shaft's, bushings, gear's, braces, ect where as the the 5.0's are ripping off 1.5-1.6 60 foot's and lifting a front tire with just sticky tires, CAI and tune.

The 5.0L is a better design set up for drag racing vs the SS so its hard to say its up to the driver once both cars are tuned and pushing the limits of the SS factory IRS during a hard launch. If the SS still has SRA and was a few hundred pounds lighter like the 4th gen SS then sure it would be a drivers race, but the 5th gen SS went soft, where as the GT stuck to its roots wasn't made from the same platform as a sedan.

Now I'm strictly talking about 1/4 drag racing since comparing freeway roll race's is against forum rules.

Wow I can't read nevermind.

[REEFBLUE93]

Originally Posted by RedJewel2SS

i raced one before i had headers and beat it pretty badly. only mods at the time was axle back exhaust and cold air intake.

You raced a Terminator with a horrible driver or 2 plug wires off. Sorry man, you didn't beat an 03-04 "badly" and probably wasn't a Terminator. Just being realistic here...

[THE EVIL TW1N]

Originally Posted by ULTRAZLS1

Yes but you have to remember....

Suiting the needs of the strip crowd is a VERY small portion of the market/sales of the camaro. I am not sure how much GM will do in terms of strip readiness but you never know. At the end of the day it is still an IRS car. They should fine tune its handling and maybe add a little more power, gear options etc. Hone in on what the car can have the ability to do exceptionally well...handle/perform all around.

If they want to win the drag strip war they will have to do it with a ~3500lb alpha platform camaro. Using lighter weight materials and dropping the weight of the current car isnt likely. It is very expensive and would not improve sales very much. Same with strengthening parts for the strip...not going to help sales. If the car handles better and looks better on paper it will do more for sales than the previous IMO. The interior upgrade could be a big hit as well (even though I like mine)

Even if the 2012 camaro edges out the mustang GT stock for stock (which will still be cool for bragging rights)...the edge will still go to the mustang for the most part at the track for the average person/build due to reasons mentioned before. For this generation the mustang will have the edge at the strip. And hey...thats fine with me...the camaro still rocks. Ill put this car up against any mustang NA for NA mod for mod on the street in most situations etc(win or lose ill hold my own). And the power they make with H/C with pump gas and stock bottom end with simple off the shelf parts (up to ~530rwhp) is nothing to sneeze at. That is hard to beat NA for NA as well.

For the most part the camaro is a huge success. It is doing far better than the 4th gen before it (especially considering the economy) and it was better suited for the track.

serious question, how many 3850lbs rwd IRS cars are out there that can handle like a beast? i think dominating the "handling" aspect of driving dynamics would still be hard for the SS even with its suspension advantage. I might be wrong on that though.

[mikeSS]

Originally Posted by THE EVIL TW1N

serious question, how many 3850lbs rwd IRS cars are out there that can handle like a beast? i think dominating the "handling" aspect of driving dynamics would still be hard for the SS even with its suspension advantage. I might be wrong on that though.

the camaro`s handling sucks, i didn't buy the car from handling, i bought it for straight line racing. if i wanted a all around good sports car i would have gotten a 370z... any one who says the camaro can handle has not driven/been in a car that can handle

[THE EVIL TW1N]

Originally Posted by mikeSS

the camaro`s handling sucks, i didn't buy the car from handling, i bought it for straight line racing. if i wanted a all around good sports car i would have gotten a 370z... any one who says the camaro can handle has not driven/been in a car that can handle

wow. Well, that surprsised me. As far as the 370z goes i used one in Forza2 and was very impressed by its overall capabilities, other than that i have no experience with them LOL

i think the Camaro CAN be made to handle well, its not gonna be super tossable though. with its weight i see it more as gran touring type car.

[ULTRAZLS1]

Originally Posted by THE EVIL TW1N

serious question, how many 3850lbs rwd IRS cars are out there that can handle like a beast? i think dominating the "handling" aspect of driving dynamics would still be hard for the SS even with its suspension advantage. I might be wrong on that though.

The current GT500 weighs 3820 and beat a 3300 pound grand sport on a certain track without even the use of IRS. (given thats only one test but still)

An over 4000lb cts-v handles exceptionally well. (beat bmw m5 and e65 on nurburgring)

The current camaro was only .1 tenth behind a 2011 GT in the only head to head track comparison I have read.

Pedders built one that was 39xx lbs (had a supercharger) that pulled 1.4 gs on a skid pad and ran faster lap times than a corvette zo6 while still being slower to accelerate and brake.....it just plain carved corners. The chassis has a lot of potential.

The camaro has a better shot at being a better all around car than the mustang than they do making it a better strip car. Its overall configuration is a bit too heavy and not quite as drag strip friendly to even waste the time and money on doing it. Not saying it cant be done...because it certainly can...you just need a few more parts to get their. I just dont see GM looking at the car and thinking "how can we make this thing hook better at the drag strip?". They are most likely going to look at real world performance in every day driving. It would be cool however...to offer optional packages for gears etc like the mustang does. In time maybe we will see what happens...I am just guessing.

[mikeSS]

Originally Posted by THE EVIL TW1N

wow. Well, that surprsised me. As far as the 370z goes i used one in Forza2 and was very impressed by its overall capabilities, other than that i have no experience with them LOL

i think the Camaro CAN be made to handle well, its not gonna be super tossable though. with its weight i see it more as gran touring type car.

o for sure the camaro can be made to handle, the car feels heavy in the turns, but there is allot of hope for the big chevy

[ULTRAZLS1]

Originally Posted by REEFBLUE93

You raced a Terminator with a horrible driver or 2 plug wires off. Sorry man, you didn't beat an 03-04 "badly" and probably wasn't a Terminator. Just being realistic here...

Anything can happen in a street race or any type of race for that matter.

All things equal yes it would not be a very likely outcome. But since when is everything equal in real world situations? And even all things equal...the cars are rather close in performance...if he just had a couple mods he could likely win. (cobra still stock) Why would it need to be a "horrible" driver. A horrible driver couldnt run 13's in a terminator.

My friend could consistently beat ls1 cars on the street with his cat back and gears 1990 mustang gt 5 speed. He was convinced they still ruled the street until 2005 when I got my 98 camaro and beat him by buslengths like he literally pulled the e-brake. He promptly built a 408 stroker for the car and just ran out of money in the process lol...but thats a different story.

I would say that the majority of people are not good drivers.