Camaro VS Mustang Mega Thread

[ULTRAZLS1]

Originally Posted by garagelogic

Funny, I experienced something similar just yesterday. My wife is in the market for a new car, so I swung into the local BMW dealer to take a look at a used M3 they had sitting on the lot. Next thing I know there are four or five guys standing around in 20 degree, snowy, weather asking me if I was planning on trading my car in or if they could check it out.

Of course, it was a far cry from having "emptied the dealership out" of employees/salesmen, but considering I was driving a two year-old body style GT500 covered in winter road grime, I have to admit I was humbled and a little proud of the little pony with the ugly rear end.

GT500's are in my book. Same with the GT to a lesser extent. The camaro just has a look and style to it that is unmatched at the current time IMHO. The cherry on top is that I have always been a GM fan and owned camaros previously.

[1bad65]

Originally Posted by garagelogic

Funny, I experienced something similar just yesterday. My wife is in the market for a new car, so I swung into the local BMW dealer to take a look at a used M3 they had sitting on the lot. Next thing I know there are four or five guys standing around in 20 degree, snowy, weather asking me if I was planning on trading my car in or if they could check it out.

Of course, it was a far cry from having "emptied the dealership out" of employees/salesmen, but considering I was driving a two year-old body style GT500 covered in winter road grime, I have to admit I was humbled and a little proud of the little pony with the ugly rear end.

Just imagine the attention you would have got had you put Lambo doors on it.

[Screaminz2002]

Originally Posted by 1bad65

Yup, his post was chock full of mistakes.

"Better to keep your mouth closed and be thought a fool than to open it and remove all doubt."

Really? What is that, the typical fan boy response ? Sorry but I don't keep up with the Mustang changes from 2v to 2000v. Most non stang fans don't really care. They all looked the same in the rearview mirror anyway. All I was saying is that it's been the base 4.6L engine regardless of what internal changes were made or what heads were attached. It has never been a great engine and I am sure no one will look back and miss it. The only thing it had going for it was a long production run of proven performance parts that were cheap and 40 billion cars on the road.

Add to this a v-6 camaro in 2010 that could line up next to a base GT and take it should the driver error just a tad. It's funny to listen to mustang owners and then watch them at the track for the last 10 years barely breaking into the 13's on a good night. Hell though, what do I know other then going to the track fairly regularly over the last 20 years. And before the oval boys go off, leave your magazine at home. It's rare to see a new stang or camaro break into the 12's, stock, with average drivers.

[1bad65]

Originally Posted by Screaminz2002

Really? What is that, the typical fan boy response ?

No, it's the educated response.

Originally Posted by Screaminz2002

Sorry but I don't keep up with the Mustang changes from 2v to 2000v. Most non stang fans don't really care.

You cared enough to post in the thread.

Originally Posted by Screaminz2002

They all looked the same in the rearview mirror anyway. All I was saying is that it's been the base 4.6L engine regardless of what internal changes were made or what heads were attached. It has never been a great engine and I am sure no one will look back and miss it. The only thing it had going for it was a long production run of proven performance parts that were cheap and 40 billion cars on the road.

What part of Texas are you in? We can see if your 6.2L engine can take my puny 4.6.

Speaking of a long production run, at least we could buy our cars from 2003-2009.

Originally Posted by Screaminz2002

Add to this a v-6 camaro in 2010 that could line up next to a base GT and take it should the driver error just a tad.

And I could beat a C6 Z06 Vette if there is driver error. What's your point?

[REEFBLUE93]

Originally Posted by Screaminz2002

Really? What is that, the typical fan boy response ? Sorry but I don't keep up with the Mustang changes from 2v to 2000v. Most non stang fans don't really care. They all looked the same in the rearview mirror anyway. All I was saying is that it's been the base 4.6L engine regardless of what internal changes were made or what heads were attached. It has never been a great engine and I am sure no one will look back and miss it. The only thing it had going for it was a long production run of proven performance parts that were cheap and 40 billion cars on the road.

Add to this a v-6 camaro in 2010 that could line up next to a base GT and take it should the driver error just a tad. It's funny to listen to mustang owners and then watch them at the track for the last 10 years barely breaking into the 13's on a good night. Hell though, what do I know other then going to the track fairly regularly over the last 20 years. And before the oval boys go off, leave your magazine at home. It's rare to see a new stang or camaro break into the 12's, stock, with average drivers.

Contradict yourself much?? I can't imagine why Ford would put a variant of such a "crappy" engine in their cars and trucks for over a decade. I'm just not remembering the multitude of issues people had with these. That would be like me saying the GM 5.7 liter is just a horrible piece of junk engine and those LT and LS powerplants were just a waste of time. Come on man.....

[havocnmayhem2005]

a little off topic form the current discussion but has anyone noticed used prices on the 2010 camaro SS vs the 2011 Mustang GT....we're talking not so close. The Mustang GT is around $27000 with a few thousand miles on it, and seen as low as $25900 FOR A 5.0!!! Camaro SS that has been out almost 2 years and it is hard to find then under $28000 with a lot more miles on them. What gives? In a year if the freaking 5.0 is down around $20000 used I'll be getting that instead. I love me some Camaros but damn.

[assasinator]

Originally Posted by Shardik2SS

That sounds killer! I wish I had the necessary funds to have you build a motor for me. I've been reading about built motors and I've recently decided to start saving for something like that. You're right about cleanliness, triple checking and attention to detail. That's very important and it's something a lot of people are lacking in these days.

the number one thing about buying a motor like that, is to understand exactly what you are going to use it for.


if i had a SS and was considering where to go with it, a LSA or built supercharged LS2 is what i would build/get. the foundation of h beam rods and forged pistons goes a long way to allowing any future upgrades.



its easy to go too far also. super radical cams and drivabilities issues they have arent the best for DD IMO. i think the engine you already have is a good starting place. you have to put the power down also. get your suspension ready for the direction you are going first.

if you are determined to go all motor cubic inches added to the head you already have is killer. a 400-420 inch LS3 based engine with a mild cam would drive like a dream and really have the power of a supercharged engine without running a blower.

turbo charging a LS3 with reduced compression would be very nice. pocket ported ls3/l92's flow 360ish cfm. thats plenty, and turbo charging is unnoticable till you nail it. gas mileage is pretty unaffected, and there's no need for radical camming. best of all worlds. same drivability you have now with the most power possible. turbos always make more power and a lot more torque. a properly designed turbo is a good option even for m6's. i would personally change to an automatic for turbo. my turbo is an auto.

[assasinator]

Originally Posted by Screaminz2002

Really? What is that, the typical fan boy response ? Sorry but I don't keep up with the Mustang changes from 2v to 2000v. Most non stang fans don't really care. They all looked the same in the rearview mirror anyway. All I was saying is that it's been the base 4.6L engine regardless of what internal changes were made or what heads were attached. It has never been a great engine and I am sure no one will look back and miss it. The only thing it had going for it was a long production run of proven performance parts that were cheap and 40 billion cars on the road.

Add to this a v-6 camaro in 2010 that could line up next to a base GT and take it should the driver error just a tad. It's funny to listen to mustang owners and then watch them at the track for the last 10 years barely breaking into the 13's on a good night. Hell though, what do I know other then going to the track fairly regularly over the last 20 years. And before the oval boys go off, leave your magazine at home. It's rare to see a new stang or camaro break into the 12's, stock, with average drivers.

those of us into 4v modulars wont be leaving the performance scene in the next 30 years.

[REEFBLUE93]

Originally Posted by assasinator

those of us into 4v modulars wont be leaving the performance scene in the next 30 years.

Lmao!

[BigDan]

Shhhhh.........Apparently he doesn't even know about 4V's or even the fully forged factory supercharged 4V's do to "Not keeping up on mustang changes from 2V to 2000V"

He'll find out soon enough.

[thePill]

I cannot find any info on the Boss 302 fuel delivery system other than "revised cams, runners in the box ect...) I need to know the throttle body mm, injector lbs, what "revised cams" mean and anything else the Boss uses to deliver fuel.

Ford Racing doesn't have the parts up yet and I would love to know the specs on the delivery system they used on the Boss. I will be completely NA for road course duty. Steeda Stage 3 with the "prototype" control arms are inc. Need rear brake kit and tune to open it up beyond 7000rpm...

I really need the specs on the Boss 302 intake, cams, injectors, throttle body and runners.

[BigDan]

^ I found the exhaust cam's on page 119 of the 2011 FRPP catalog. I also found heads so there might be more.

http://www.fordracingparts.com/2011-catalog/

[Screaminz2002]

I cared enough to post in this thread being that is in the Camaro5 forum and not the 96-2010 mustang forum... O wait they changed bodies in 05.. my bad. You have to pick between the two now. Dang chasis changes.. You know you can take a little rubbing..

Never stated the 4.6 was crap. You guys take so much out of context it amazes me. Some 4.6L editions were mod friendly. The 4v cobras were a nice touch but not a regular production GT. I guess they should have used a 4.6L in the gt500 and would have had a real gem? Wonder why they went to a 5.4 for that. According to you guys the sun shines and the clouds part for the 4.6, right? I am betting each of you go to bed at night cussing the change to the 5.0

Hey I have another idea. Dump a ton of internal mods and add slicks to a 4.6 and we will show those pesky stock Camaro owners!! Even if your not close in Texas just go buy a 2010 GT (you can still find them on lots for 80% of msrp) and head to the track. I am betting you can find a stock Camaro there to blow the doors off of?

Heres the whole point which I hope you can understand. The new 5.0 is a much better engine then the 4.6 Look at the gains being posted from simple bolt-ons. It's pretty amazing. Now look at the gains you were getting from the REGULAR PRODUCTION Mustang GT. Not the cobra, not the bullet reproduction, not a shelby. Your typical off the lot GT. I cannot believe I am sitting here defending a ford product to stang fans or the fact that the 5.0 would have never happened without the Camaro release.

[1bad65]

Originally Posted by Screaminz2002

You know you can take a little rubbing..

I hope you can too.

Originally Posted by Screaminz2002

Never stated the 4.6 was crap. You guys take so much out of context it amazes me. Some 4.6L editions were mod friendly.

I am betting each of you go to bed at night cussing the change to the 5.0

You were rough on the pre 5.0 Mustangs, so you got some replies that weren't so nice. It happens. And you made alot of errors based on your lack of knowledge on Mustang engines, so you got ribbed on that.

And I'm thrilled the 5.0 came out. It seems to be some of the 2010 Camaro owners who are freaking out the most. They seem to have a problem with their car suddenly not being the 'top dawg' anymore. Me, I like competition and a challenge. If I always have the faster car, it doesnt make racing that fun imo. I get a bigger thrill out of beating a guy with a faster car than mine. That means I outdrove the guy, not just that I brought the faster car.

Originally Posted by Screaminz2002

Hey I have another idea. Dump a ton of internal mods and add slicks to a 4.6 and we will show those pesky stock Camaro owners!! Even if your not close in Texas just go buy a 2010 GT (you can still find them on lots for 80% of msrp) and head to the track. I am betting you can find a stock Camaro there to blow the doors off of?

I'll show them now and I don't have internal mods or a ton of money invested. Just some bolt-ons, tires, and gears. And you mentioned STOCK Camaros, I'm fully aware a Camaro with the exact same mods I have will take me, and pretty good too unless driver error occurs.

And I'll be the first to admit the 2010 Camaro whipped the 2010 Mustang in terms drag racing. It is what it is. But the topic of modding the 4.6 came up, so I offered mine which imo is not even highly modded.

Originally Posted by Screaminz2002

Heres the whole point which I hope you can understand. The new 5.0 is a much better engine then the 4.6 Look at the gains being posted from simple bolt-ons. It's pretty amazing. Now look at the gains you were getting from the REGULAR PRODUCTION Mustang GT. Not the cobra, not the bullet reproduction, not a shelby. Your typical off the lot GT. I cannot believe I am sitting here defending a ford product to stang fans or the fact that the 5.0 would have never happened without the Camaro release.

Of course it's better. Things should improve with every new engine. Old 5.0 < 4.6 2V < 4.6 3V < New 5.0. It's common sense. Of course while they do mod better than the 4.6 3V, you had guys hitting high 12s on a intake and tune on those, and that's pretty good for a car with just 300 hp stock. But again, there is no question the new 5.0 is a step up.

And Ford had that engine in the works well before the Camaro came back out, after it's little time off . Do you really think they designed, manufactured, tested, and put it into production in under a year?

Ford had no reason to upgrade to the 4.6 3V engine in MY05, but they did. The Challenger and Camaro weren't out yet, and the GTO sold so few units it wasn't a sales competitor to the Mustang. So you know the 5.0 was coming out anyway, regardless of if Chevy had brought back the Camaro or not.