Z28 Higher than SS?

[hftech]

Thing is I don't mind who buys the car...the more people to buy it the better, so they keep producing the car. But one thing I fear...is seeing the Camaro doomed to the same fate as the Charger got. It just became a ghetto car where people decked it out with fake chrome autozone crap and they put 24 inch rims on them. I saw 2 F-Bodys that were done that way and just thought of organizing a social services division for Camaros and taking the car away, just like Britney had her kids taken away. Keep that crap on the charger, 300, and the mustang people!

[The_Stache]

Whats wrong with 24's and chrome? (not that Im going 24's .. but probably 22's)

[hftech]

eh...20s are good enough 21s wouldn't bother me too much and 22 is really stretching it, then you get the 24s and above....it's just garbage. It's just demeaning to the car. Granted it's a personal opinion, but I like to make it known that I don't like it.

[Mindz]

I don't mind making it like the 'Lacs of old. "72, Aqua blue, on them thangs we roll..." ~Youngbloods on Cadillac Pimpin.

Looks cool, as long as it's done well. The Jada concept is done well. I won't be going for that, but I don't mind if it's done. I just don't want girls driving a v6 thinking it's a bad ass racing machine and acting ignorant and "ghetto" like, like the mustang is now.

EDIT: Orr guys like that either.

[SulphurDave]

I'm sure this has already been said in this thread but given how GM has put SS on almost everything with a VIN# I'd rather see Z/28 as the top dog. Then later on there should be specialty company version(s).

[Dunk31]

Originally Posted by diarmadhi

Don't care if its called a pinto.. I just want the concept style, 2 doors, 8 cylinders, 4 seats and a tank of gas!

GOOOOOD CALLLLLL!!!
I know what I would prefer, but what good does it do. I know how much I'm willing to spend. If you plan on buying the top dog then that's what you're gonna buy, no matter the name. And if you're gonna buy the mid then that's what you're gonna buy.

[stovt001]

Once you get over 18 inches the weight of the wheel and the low profile of the tire really kill speed, efficiency, ride, and handling. There is no reason to put wheels larger than that on the car. It just makes it look ghetto. But I agree with hftech, I'd hate to see the Camaro suffer the same fate as other modern performance cars, where the "upgrades" are massive chrome wheels, darkest tinting possible on all windows, and blacked out lights. What logic is there behind thinking these kinds of things look good? But anyway this is all

Back on topic, I can see convincing arguments for both sides. Historically, the Z28 should be the all out race machine. It might not get the biggest engine, but it should be the fastest around the track, and should even be able to hold its own in a speed contest against some of the huge engine customs done by third parties. But if you're speaking in modern terms, SS tends to signify the top trim level. Really, I think the Z28 should be the lightest V8 trim, possibly even lighter than the base V6 trim with an emphasis on handling and pure racetrack speed. SS can have the monster engine, but also more comfort, more of a grand touring type car. Which one is the top trim depends on what you are looking for. Ideally the Z28 should be so hardcore that most buyers won't even use it as a daily driver, while the SS can be used as a daily driver and still be pretty fast. This is just my wish list and in no way is a likely guess at reality, but I'd have the Z28 constructed with every weight saving possibility (aluminum frame, carbon fiber panels, AC, radio, etc delete options, lightweight race wheels, possibly even a rear seat delete) with a high-revving but small and light V8, summer tires, and a very aggressive suspension tuning. On the other hand, the SS should have a beast of a motor and sporty suspension, along with such luxuries as magnetic selective ride control (switch between cruising and sport) leather seats, auto-AC, etc.

[EllwynX]

Originally Posted by stovt001

Once you get over 18 inches the weight of the wheel and the low profile of the tire really kill speed, efficiency, ride, and handling. There is no reason to put wheels larger than that on the car. It just makes it look ghetto. But I agree with hftech, I'd hate to see the Camaro suffer the same fate as other modern performance cars, where the "upgrades" are massive chrome wheels, darkest tinting possible on all windows, and blacked out lights. What logic is there behind thinking these kinds of things look good? But anyway this is all

I can't answer your question, but I do find dark tinted windows, blacked out lights and large (not HUGE) wheels very good looking. Why? No idea, but I do.

[The_Stache]

Originally Posted by stovt001

Once you get over 18 inches the weight of the wheel and the low profile of the tire really kill speed, efficiency, ride, and handling. There is no reason to put wheels larger than that on the car. It just makes it look ghetto. But I agree with hftech, I'd hate to see the Camaro suffer the same fate as other modern performance cars, where the "upgrades" are massive chrome wheels, darkest tinting possible on all windows, and blacked out lights. What logic is there behind thinking these kinds of things look good? But anyway this is all

To some, Its all a matter of what your own tastes run to. I dont run around knocking all the 2nd 3rd and 4th gen owners that thier cars look like ass (personal opinion) do I? Nope. Again opinions will vary. Please just don't come off saying its "ghetto".

Larger wheels with low profile tires will give a larger tread contact patch increasing grip and if the wheels are actual performance wheels they will weigh the same or less that stock 15's/16's/17s. Why do you think the Z06 comes with 19's in the rear? or that the mercialago comes with 18X13 wheels in the rear?

Horse power is nothing if it cant get to the road and increasing contact patch is the best bang for buck.

As for killing efficiency, ride and handling... well anything thats performance based will do that.. if your buying this car so you can get higher MPG.. your in the wrong market. And you cant expect a race suspension to feel like a caddy.. especially if this car is in the price range of a Mustang (which it will be).

Sorry to go off topic but generalities and labels really tork me off. Sort of why the whole SS Vrs. Z28 debate torks me.. what does it matter its only a "label" you could call it the "Camaro LOL" and if it handles and performs the way you want it to what does it matter? Would you not buy it just becuase of a label? If thats the case does that make you more or less of a camaro buff? Is history a reason for debate? Mass consumers could care less about history and they are the ones driving the market. Is it Pride? If thats the case go by a vette or something else exotic.

Well thats all I have right now..

/rantoff

[Mindz]

I'm with you Diarmadhi.

Here's a vid of what "ghetto" apparantly looks like.

http://www.craveonline.com/garage/vi...r_vs_tire.html

[DGthe3]

Done for performance is fine. Done to become rolling stereos isn't. Some larger, lightweight wheels that have a tire with a small sidewall will improve handling, so long as the outer diameter of the tire is pretty much the same. And lowering the suspension can also help. Jacking the car up to put 28" rims is amazing to some, but so are massive spoilers, giant superchargers, adjustible airbag suspension, and so on. Many of these start out as performance modifications, then the people who consider looking fast the same as being fast get a bit more outlandish. Then a game of one upmanship starts and you end up with a caprice with 28" rims or an S10 with its frame on the ground.

[JeepinMatt]

Originally Posted by stovt001

Once you get over 18 inches the weight of the wheel and the low profile of the tire really kill speed, efficiency, ride, and handling. There is no reason to put wheels larger than that on the car. It just makes it look ghetto. But I agree with hftech, I'd hate to see the Camaro suffer the same fate as other modern performance cars, where the "upgrades" are massive chrome wheels, darkest tinting possible on all windows, and blacked out lights. What logic is there behind thinking these kinds of things look good? But anyway this is all

Back on topic, I can see convincing arguments for both sides. Historically, the Z28 should be the all out race machine. It might not get the biggest engine, but it should be the fastest around the track, and should even be able to hold its own in a speed contest against some of the huge engine customs done by third parties. But if you're speaking in modern terms, SS tends to signify the top trim level. Really, I think the Z28 should be the lightest V8 trim, possibly even lighter than the base V6 trim with an emphasis on handling and pure racetrack speed. SS can have the monster engine, but also more comfort, more of a grand touring type car. Which one is the top trim depends on what you are looking for. Ideally the Z28 should be so hardcore that most buyers won't even use it as a daily driver, while the SS can be used as a daily driver and still be pretty fast. This is just my wish list and in no way is a likely guess at reality, but I'd have the Z28 constructed with every weight saving possibility (aluminum frame, carbon fiber panels, AC, radio, etc delete options, lightweight race wheels, possibly even a rear seat delete) with a high-revving but small and light V8, summer tires, and a very aggressive suspension tuning. On the other hand, the SS should have a beast of a motor and sporty suspension, along with such luxuries as magnetic selective ride control (switch between cruising and sport) leather seats, auto-AC, etc.

I love the idea of the Z28 having an aluminum frame

[stovt001]

I'd argue that adding width to the wheel is more effective than diameter. It was noted the the Lambo has 18s, and I think 18 is right around the best tradeoff. Think about it, if the biggest wheel possible equaled better performance, then why don't you see real race cars with massive wheels? Also, efficiency, when it comes to rolling resistance, translates not only to mpg, but more importantly in this discussion to real speed and acceleration. With lower rolling resistance, the engine doesn't have to work as hard to turn the wheel, thus more speed per unit of engine output. However, the tradeoff is grip, so you have to balance grip with low rolling resistance. The point of my post is that optimal performance is about finding the correct balance, which is never done by going to the extreme, such as adding massive wheels. Also, concerning ride and handling, adding weight with a larger wheel adversely affects the suspension setup. So many people add aftermarket wheels just because they look good without realizing how it impacts the suspension. Once again this involves a balance of grip, bump absorption, stability, and the like. If you add a massive spoiler to the back, chances are most of the time it is just for show, but if you ever go fast enough to gain an advantage from downforce, you've probably just overloaded the rear and unloaded the front tires. Hello understeer. Real performance is about so much more than just bolting on stuff.

Also Diarmadhi, ride and handling are not the same thing, and often work against each other, but not always. In a performance car you sacrifice ride for handling, yet you seem to think that handling has no place in a performance car. The only time it doesn't matter is in a strictly drag car.

[Rock36]

Yeah the diameter of performance cars like vettes, lambos, and whatever are usually because they have massive break kits that need the clearance of a large rim.

A lower profile tire also has some merits in cornering as far as I understand, but for all out traction the width of the contact patch is what is important.

Though generally the bigger the rim, the heavier, and the more rolling resistance/unsprung weight you have which reduces performance.

Again it is necessary for things like huge disk breaks and the like.