Are longtubes worth it?

[Logan1234]

Originally Posted by khabboub

So with the 3.55 gears how much would the torque increase? And how much would it cost and to get installed?

And wouldn't I need the trifecta tune anyways to fix me speedo calibration?

The torque increase is a mechanical benefit, not a "power" benefit.

Putting gears in your car is like riding a 10/12/18/21 speed bicycle... when you have the bike in an "easy" gear (3.55, 3.73, 4.10 in a car) your legs don't have to work as hard to move the bike but in a "hard" gear (2.73, 3.08, 3.27 in a car) you are really working your legs. In the "easy" gears, the pedals are rotating very quickly compared to the tires and your overall speed is slower while in the "hard" gears the pedals are moving slower compared to the tire speed which allows a higher top speed.

By going with a higher (numerical) gear ratio in your car you are allowing the motor to spin more times for each tire rotation which has the same effect as the "easy" gear scenario on a bicycle.

The total cost can vary between $500-$1500 depending on where you take it, if you have it tuned, etc.

Based on your questions/comments/concerns, this is what I would recommend for you... since the effective gear ratios can also be changed by the tire diameter, it might be an option for you to get an extra set of wheels/tires when you want to race the car and that way you won't have to worry about a tune or your warranty, you'll just have to deal with the speedometer being off.

[IROCanSS]

Oh and you don't need a full tune to address the speedo.

[jagan323]

imo, really depends what you want from the LT. Most people do it for power... some people do it for the status, some for sound, etc. I personally wanted LTs... but now with the TT kit coming out... Im holding back on it. I'll probably go with shorties to free up some power and sound.

[IROCanSS]

Shorties=next to no power... Just sayin

[KMPrenger]

Originally Posted by jrhaus76

I'm sorry KMP buy there is not a snowballs chance in hell a V6 is going to pick up those kind of numbers WITHOUT exhaust, CAI and a tune.....

....No way headers alone will get you what you claim. Sorry I just don't buy it. Don't believe the advertisements of other peoples number fudging.

I don't disagree with you entirely, and what you mentioned above is also why I said in my post that without a tune you could be leaving additional power on the table.

and of course I don't just take a manufacturers' claim for granted...nobody should. I'm just thinking back to the various independent dynos I've seen on here comparing before and after runs with long tube headers. Every one of them added somewhere around 15 + HP at peak (TQ is a bit less). 14 HP is the lowest gain I remember from LTs, and I don't remember any gaining 20 or more either.

I agree that 300 rwhp, especially on an auto car is awfully tough to achieve. There is only one V6 owner here who might hit that number without FI, and hes doing a laundry list of engine mods. Most automatics with CAI, LTs, and exhaust are dynoing around the 270 HP range (give or take)...and typically the autos show around a 20% drivetrain loss, so that puts them in the 335 to 340 crank HP range. If this guy hits the 300 rwhp mark that will be amazing....that would be around 370 crank horsepower. Of course, as always we come back to that TQ number, which will be less, but still much better than stock.

[IROCanSS]

Whoa, the autos are taking a 20% hit... I knew after I did my math the number was high. I know of the guy your talking about I think... Don right? He is doing quite a bit! I think we are actually in complete agreement. After reading you last post, your talking about accross the curve. Much high gains mid range, not so much at peak... I think I miss understood!

Ignore my poor spelling. I'm using my phone and it's hard to back and correct!!!

[khabboub]

Originally Posted by jagan323

imo, really depends what you want from the LT. Most people do it for power... some people do it for the status, some for sound, etc. I personally wanted LTs... but now with the TT kit coming out... Im holding back on it. I'll probably go with shorties to free up some power and sound.

wouldnt you want better airflow from the engine? from what i understand getting LTs can only be better.

[bossbunny]

Originally Posted by jrhaus76

I don't know where to begin with post...

Are headers worth it? That depends. Do you plan on getting a CAI, exhaust and tune? If the answer to all these questions is YES, the answer is YES it's worth it. If you go all out and do this, kiss a couple grand minimum and your powertrain warranty good bye and you're going to have a car that pretty much could sound like a swarm of pissed off bees.

If you are only wanting headers... Don't bother. The V6 is VERY efficient to begin with and you aren't going to pick up squat with headers and nothing else.

Who gives a loose turd about being "faster" than a V6 Mustang. You want QUICKER. To get there, put the car on a diet and get a different set of gears. Everyone is so quick to talk horsepower... HP isnt important here, what is is torque. People get so caught up in HP numbers... Adding a few ft-lbs of torque with only headers isn't enough to overcome the weight and gear disadvantage.

With that said, I am going to address your other question... "how reliable is the camaro? i mean lets be honest its an american car, can the V6 take a lot of punishment? i just really dont want to have to pay a whole lot of money if anything goes wrong."

WTF kind of question is that?

Sounds like a slam on American cars to me? Why did you even buy it if you don't think its going to be reliable? How much punishment do you plan on giving it? Its not indestructible. How much punishment could ANY car take. I mean, if I take a foreign car out and beat the snot out of it... guess what, IT WILL BREAK.

You crack me up Jason. Tell them like it is... But a v6 with headers, cai, exhaust and a tune... doesn't sound like bees.

Originally Posted by h2oplay

WOW, well said......

After doing my research. I came up with the same conclusion on exhaust mods for the V6, I'm going with a gear change instead.....

I've been contemplating this as well... But it will be the last mod on my list. They only make 3.55s for us A6s though... Which sucks... Rear end swap?! JK.

Originally Posted by jrhaus76

I'm sorry KMP buy there is not a snowballs chance in hell a V6 is going to pick up those kind of numbers WITHOUT exhaust, CAI and a tune. Sorry it's just not there. Let's take my car for example...

Stock-358hp sae dyno = 426hp crank so my car is losing 16%.
New HP is 408 sae dyno. Calculating CRANK HP using the 16% loss on my car bc they are all different. I am in the range of 486 HP at the crank. That's a 60 HP gain (14%).
I have intake, exhaust, headers, no cats and a tune.

Now lets take a stock V6 (and here us where we have to make some assumptions). Assuming the V6 leaves as much untapped power as the LS3 (it doesn't but we will say it does). 312 HP * 14% incease = 43 HP. You could only expect to gain AT MOST 40-45 HP At the crank with EVERYTHING. And that's at the crank. Assuming the standard 15% drivetrain loss... 45 HP * 85% = 38 wheel HP. 312*.84=262+38= 300 wheel HP. Go find out how many people have had any luck getting a V6 to 300 wheel HP. NOT MANY without major mods. Use common sense. These engines are VERY efficient. The "numbers" don't show much but the feel and response is much improved.

No way headers alone will get you what you claim. Sorry I just don't buy it. Don't believe the advertisements of other peoples number fudging.

I thought this was a V6 Camaro thread... Not a math thread. I kid!

Tuners have a really hard time getting extra hp out of the V6 because its so efficient. Which is good for stock car owners... But stinks for us modders.

Originally Posted by jrhaus76

Shorties=next to no power... Just sayin

Originally Posted by jrhaus76

Whoa, the autos are taking a 20% hit... I knew after I did my math the number was high. I know of the guy your talking about I think... Don right? He is doing quite a bit! I think we are actually in complete agreement. After reading you last post, your talking about accross the curve. Much high gains mid range, not so much at peak... I think I miss understood!

Ignore my poor spelling. I'm using my phone and it's hard to back and correct!!!

Did you pass 2nd grade?? Jk,

Us autos got the raw end of the deal... And it sucks.

[mike.nite]

Originally Posted by jrhaus76

Go find out how many people have had any luck getting a V6 to 300 wheel HP. NOT MANY without major mods. Use common sense. These engines are VERY efficient. The "numbers" don't show much but the feel and response is much improved.

No way headers alone will get you what you claim. Sorry I just don't buy it. Don't believe the advertisements of other peoples number fudging.

+1!!! (I have them) But they are at least better than shorties.

Originally Posted by KMPrenger

I'm just thinking back to the various independent dynos I've seen on here comparing before and after runs with long tube headers. Every one of them added somewhere around 15 + HP at peak (TQ is a bit less). 14 HP is the lowest gain I remember from LTs, and I don't remember any gaining 20 or more either.

KMP - do you have the links to those dynos? I could only find the spread-sheet and there werent that much LT headers.

[IROCanSS]

Iz too kool fur skool BB!!!

[E.T.]

Originally Posted by jrhaus76

Shorties=next to no power... Just sayin

Just got the Doug Thorleys, but didn't dyno, so no numbers to post. The car feels and sounds better, so I'm happy with 'em. At least one other member posted some dyno results on here though, and the DTs showed some impressive gains.

To the OP, consider doing an intake, shorty headers and an exhaust. You may not get as much HP as you would with long tubes, but you also won't have to get a tune and say bye bye to your warranty.

[KMPrenger]

Originally Posted by mike.nite

KMP - do you have the links to those dynos? I could only find the spread-sheet and there werent that much LT headers.

Don't have any direct links on me....Yes I know it doesn't sound too well not having the proof to backup my words does it? lol But I know the data is here somewhere....keyword somewhere.

Member Mrray13 (I think thats it) had dynos here showing a before/after of stock vs JBA shorties, and then later going to ARH LTs, and showed a gain for each move. The ARHs basically ended up doubling his gains from the JBAs

Camaro Now did a recent article on the BBKs showing nice gains. (without a tune I believe, but may have included the CAI....not sure on that one)

Devildoc and Blade may have some dyno sheets floating around here as well since they were one of the firsts to get the ARH long tubes.

I'm sorry I can't provide any links though!

[KMPrenger]

OK, well I'm at work so hard to spend too much time searching for data, but I did at least fine ONE thread lol.

He did a before/after dyno, showing a 20 HP peak gain in HOT temps:

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=97891

Course, you could speculate and ask "what if his MAF was heat soaked on the first run?"...and other what-ifs.

[khabboub]

so in the end, would you guys say that the BBKs and an intake are worth it, or swaping out for a new rear diff.