Are longtubes worth it?

[khabboub]

i really want to get the BBK longtube headers, but i have a few things holding me back.

first of all it is worth losing your warranty?

how reliable is the camaro? i mean lets be honest its an american car, can the V6 take a lot of punishment? i just really dont want to have to pay a whole lot of money if anything goes wrong.

ive done a lot of reading and it seems that the BBKs are the best bang for the buck performance wise. would there actually be a substantial power increase?

in other words... would i be faster than a 2011 mustang V6?

and overall, this is for BBK owners, do you recommend them?

[Jabs]

The dealership told me I could get any SLP part including headers and if they do the install it shouldn't void warranty... Give them a call and see if your dealerships the same?

[Revo1]

The LLT has been known to pick up about 25rwhp just with BBK longtubes and a CAI. I'm not sure what the Stang makes at the wheels, but should theoretically bring you up well over 340hp at the crank.

[khabboub]

the 2011 mustang V6 has 268 HP at the wheels. but thats not the important bit, i just want to know if they are worth it.

[Camaro Freak]

If you get the LT's you will have to have a tune because it will throw a CEL. If you get a tune then there goes your power train warranty. Not worth it to me for 20 more ponies. Just my 2 cents.

[GretchenGotGrowl]

The new V6 mustangs don't seem to be doing any better at the track than the V6 Camaro. They do have a gearing advantage on top of the lower weight. Since you have the M6, you might want to try the 3.55 gears for the rearend. It is more expensive and should only void the warrenty for the diff -- if they caused some future failure. More expensive than LTs, but you'll feel it more, too.

As stated above, LTs will throw a CEL in most cases. To remove the CEL you will need to have Trifecta tune the car. This may or may not void some or all of you warrenty. It's a chance you take when modding your car.

BTW, your car should be about 265 RWHP stock. The mustang V6 with M6 should be about 259. Again, the advangages they have are weight and gearing.

[IROCanSS]

I don't know where to begin with post...

Are headers worth it? That depends. Do you plan on getting a CAI, exhaust and tune? If the answer to all these questions is YES, the answer is YES it's worth it. If you go all out and do this, kiss a couple grand minimum and your powertrain warranty good bye and you're going to have a car that pretty much could sound like a swarm of pissed off bees.

If you are only wanting headers... Don't bother. The V6 is VERY efficient to begin with and you aren't going to pick up squat with headers and nothing else.

Who gives a loose turd about being "faster" than a V6 Mustang. You want QUICKER. To get there, put the car on a diet and get a different set of gears. Everyone is so quick to talk horsepower... HP isnt important here, what is is torque. People get so caught up in HP numbers... Adding a few ft-lbs of torque with only headers isn't enough to overcome the weight and gear disadvantage.

With that said, I am going to address your other question... "how reliable is the camaro? i mean lets be honest its an american car, can the V6 take a lot of punishment? i just really dont want to have to pay a whole lot of money if anything goes wrong."

WTF kind of question is that?

Sounds like a slam on American cars to me? Why did you even buy it if you don't think its going to be reliable? How much punishment do you plan on giving it? Its not indestructible. How much punishment could ANY car take. I mean, if I take a foreign car out and beat the snot out of it... guess what, IT WILL BREAK.

[h2oplay]

Originally Posted by jrhaus76

I don't know where to begin with post...

Are headers worth it? That depends. Do you plan on getting a CAI, exhaust and tune? If the answer to all these questions is YES, the answer is YES it's worth it. If you go all out and do this, kiss a couple grand minimum and your powertrain warranty good bye and you're going to have a car that pretty much could sound like a swarm of pissed off bees.

If you are only wanting headers... Don't bother. The V6 is VERY efficient to begin with and you aren't going to pick up squat with headers and nothing else.

Who gives a loose turd about being "faster" than a V6 Mustang. You want QUICKER. To get there, put the car on a diet and get a different set of gears. Everyone is so quick to talk horsepower... HP isnt important here, what is is torque. People get so caught up in HP numbers... Adding a few ft-lbs of torque with only headers isn't enough to overcome the weight and gear disadvantage.

With that said, I am going to address your other question... "how reliable is the camaro? i mean lets be honest its an american car, can the V6 take a lot of punishment? i just really dont want to have to pay a whole lot of money if anything goes wrong."

WTF kind of question is that?

Sounds like a slam on American cars to me? Why did you even buy it if you don't think its going to be reliable? How much punishment do you plan on giving it? Its not indestructible. How much punishment could ANY car take. I mean, if I take a foreign car out and beat the snot out of it... guess what, IT WILL BREAK.

WOW, well said......

After doing my research. I came up with the same conclusion on exhaust mods for the V6, I'm going with a gear change instead.....

[khabboub]

Originally Posted by jrhaus76

I don't know where to begin with post...

Are headers worth it? That depends. Do you plan on getting a CAI, exhaust and tune? If the answer to all these questions is YES, the answer is YES it's worth it. If you go all out and do this, kiss a couple grand minimum and your powertrain warranty good bye and you're going to have a car that pretty much could sound like a swarm of pissed off bees.

If you are only wanting headers... Don't bother. The V6 is VERY efficient to begin with and you aren't going to pick up squat with headers and nothing else.

Who gives a loose turd about being "faster" than a V6 Mustang. You want QUICKER. To get there, put the car on a diet and get a different set of gears. Everyone is so quick to talk horsepower... HP isnt important here, what is is torque. People get so caught up in HP numbers... Adding a few ft-lbs of torque with only headers isn't enough to overcome the weight and gear disadvantage.

With that said, I am going to address your other question... "how reliable is the camaro? i mean lets be honest its an american car, can the V6 take a lot of punishment? i just really dont want to have to pay a whole lot of money if anything goes wrong."

WTF kind of question is that?

Sounds like a slam on American cars to me? Why did you even buy it if you don't think its going to be reliable? How much punishment do you plan on giving it? Its not indestructible. How much punishment could ANY car take. I mean, if I take a foreign car out and beat the snot out of it... guess what, IT WILL BREAK.

Thanks for the information. And no i wasnt trying to say anything about American cars, I was just referring to the sticky thread in the powertrain forum where a bunch of people are having problems with their trannys. I just don't want to have to replace my tranny should anything go wrong.

So with the 3.55 gears how much would the torque increase? And how much would it cost and to get installed?

And wouldn't I need the trifecta tune anyways to fix me speedo calibration?

[nak3dsnake]

Originally Posted by GretchenGotGrowl

The new V6 mustangs don't seem to be doing any better at the track than the V6 Camaro. They do have a gearing advantage on top of the lower weight. Since you have the M6, you might want to try the 3.55 gears for the rearend. It is more expensive and should only void the warrenty for the diff -- if they caused some future failure. More expensive than LTs, but you'll feel it more, too.

As stated above, LTs will throw a CEL in most cases. To remove the CEL you will need to have Trifecta tune the car. This may or may not void some or all of you warrenty. It's a chance you take when modding your car.

BTW, your car should be about 265 RWHP stock. The mustang V6 with M6 should be about 259. Again, the advangages they have are weight and gearing.

3.55's are only for the A6. The M6 has the SS rear end. I'd go for the 3.73's

[nak3dsnake]

Originally Posted by khabboub

Thanks for the information. And no i wasnt trying to say anything about American cars, I was just referring to the sticky thread in the powertrain forum where a bunch of people are having problems with their trannys. I just don't want to have to replace my tranny should anything go wrong.

So with the 3.55 gears how much would the torque increase? And how much would it cost and to get installed?

And wouldn't I need the trifecta tune anyways to fix me speedo calibration?

Check out this thread for rear end gear info. Z madness installed 3.73 in his v6 M6:
http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=105548

[IROCanSS]

The torque won't increase "by the numbers" as the gears have no effect on the crank BUT it does have effect on the power (torque) required to spin the wheels. That's the cliff's notes... my lunch is here. . I'll try to write more later and on a real computer.

[KMPrenger]

Long tube headers would provide a nice and noticeable power gain in HP and TQ. Its definitely more than just a few. Typically, compared to a stock car the gains are around 25-30 HP/TQ in the 5,400 RPM range and about 15 - 20 TQ/HP at peak. If for some reason the Air/Fuel ratio gets a bit off during your mods though, your gains could be much less which is obviously where a tune comes into play. Would it be enough to overcome a mustang V6? Maybe....maybe not. Heck, compared to the base stang, it seems like the Camaro is already just as quick stock for stock, but when gearing/handling packages are added to the stang it seems to be quicker.

I wouldn't consider gears unless you want to throw on the 3.73s. That would provide a substantial difference. I believe I read it is the equivalent of some 40+ TQ being added to the car, while the 3.55s are the equivalent of around 25 TQ being added. (yes I know no actual power is added to the engine output, it just 'feels' that way) The downside is the daily driveability may be compromised a bit....gas mileage will worsen...and yes a tune will be needed to calibrate the speedo.

Tune is not always necessary for long tubes, but recommended to fight off the CEL, and you never know if your AFR is off, you may be leaving power on the table.

All it comes down to is is it worth it to you? Either LTs or gears (both with tune) will cost you 1500+. If you decided to try one of these mods without a tune it could save you hundreds of dollars, and your warranty....although it hasn't actually been proven that dealerships even look for an altered tune on the V6.

[IROCanSS]

I'm sorry KMP buy there is not a snowballs chance in hell a V6 is going to pick up those kind of numbers WITHOUT exhaust, CAI and a tune. Sorry it's just not there. Let's take my car for example...

Stock-358hp sae dyno = 426hp crank so my car is losing 16%.
New HP is 408 sae dyno. Calculating CRANK HP using the 16% loss on my car bc they are all different. I am in the range of 486 HP at the crank. That's a 60 HP gain (14%).
I have intake, exhaust, headers, no cats and a tune.

Now lets take a stock V6 (and here us where we have to make some assumptions). Assuming the V6 leaves as much untapped power as the LS3 (it doesn't but we will say it does). 312 HP * 14% incease = 43 HP. You could only expect to gain AT MOST 40-45 HP At the crank with EVERYTHING. And that's at the crank. Assuming the standard 15% drivetrain loss... 45 HP * 85% = 38 wheel HP. 312*.84=262+38= 300 wheel HP. Go find out how many people have had any luck getting a V6 to 300 wheel HP. NOT MANY without major mods. Use common sense. These engines are VERY efficient. The "numbers" don't show much but the feel and response is much improved.

No way headers alone will get you what you claim. Sorry I just don't buy it. Don't believe the advertisements of other peoples number fudging.