L99 Cam, selecting???

[tsears]

I have the Cunningham Motorsports (CMS) Stage 1 blower cam on mine. (no blower yet) No TC or Trans cooler. Put 430 RWHP on a load bearing dyno. Ran 8.4 @ 86mph on 1/8th on street tires and at the shitty Qualcomm track.

Has all the bolts minus heads. FAST 102mm IM.

[siriusdish]

He ordered a Vmax intake to go along with the Vmax tb. Sine the intake will take a wile to get.

[siriusdish]

Originally Posted by tsears

I have the Cunningham Motorsports (CMS) Stage 1 blower cam on mine. (no blower yet) No TC or Trans cooler. Put 430 RWHP on a load bearing dyno. Ran 8.4 @ 86mph on 1/8th on street tires and at the shitty Qualcomm track.

Has all the bolts minus heads. FAST 102mm IM.

Wow, sounds like that track does suck! Are track sucks pretty bad in Erie Pa. He spins there, take's it to the track in Oh and does not spin, or on the street. Was fine at flashlight drags as well. He ran a 8.3 at 84.?? w/o a cam.

[tsears]

Originally Posted by siriusdish

Wow, sounds like that track does suck! Are track sucks pretty bad in Erie Pa. He spins there, take's it to the track in Oh and does not spin, or on the street. Was fine at flashlight drags as well. He ran a 8.3 at 84.?? w/o a cam.

Yeah it's not really a certified track. Basically, Qualcomm parking lot converted with barriers and a three-light tree.

[Jason7]

Originally Posted by jrhaus76

make sure its a 3 bolt cam. PERIOD.

Show me one reason why....

[siriusdish]

Originally Posted by tsears

Yeah it's not really a certified track. Basically, Qualcomm parking lot converted with barriers and a three-light tree.

[kaler]

Originally Posted by Jason7

Show me one reason why....

Duh it has two more bolts....

[bi11ymc]

Originally Posted by Jason7

Show me one reason why....

I am not sure about now, but last year, when I wanted a cam, all the one-bolt versions were on back order and 3-bolts were in stock. That is one reason why

[thebrainhart]

Originally Posted by Jason7

Show me one reason why....

Seriously?
(Unless your sticking with VVT)



















Spend the additional $100 and get a 3 bolt setup, is it worth the risk?

[Jason7]

Oh so whoever did your install didn't tighten the bolt enough, sucks. Anyways.....

With proper tightness and aligning the cam using the dowel your fine. There is a reason why GM went to a single bolt setup and it wasn't for catostrophic failures...

Jason

[Andy@Livernois]

Originally Posted by Jason7

Oh so whoever did your install didn't tighten the bolt enough, sucks. Anyways.....

With proper tightness and aligning the cam using the dowel your fine. There is a reason why GM went to a single bolt setup and it wasn't for catostrophic failures...

Jason

I must disagree with you on this. GM went with a single bolt to accommodate being able to use the same cam cores between VVT, AFM, and traditional engine applications (aka, saving money). There is a reason the LS7 still uses a 3-bolt sprocket, why is this? because of the RPM and size of the camshaft it uses.

Also, tightening the bolt properly has little to do with these failures. Sure, some of them its probably true, however Ford guys have been battling this failure for decades on the small block ford engine. But since ford never made the engine any other way the solution is to machine the cam and timing chain to accept 2 dowel pins.

Also, we never retain VVT for this and other reasons. 1. while you can make more power with VVT it still is unproven and not designed for this type of duty. 2. The VVT system cannot handle too much spring pressure, which is why you never see dual springs on VVT equipped cars. Also, because of this, you limit yourself on camshaft selection. again, if you have 2 IDENTICAL camshafts, one with VVT, one without a properly tuned VVT cam will make more power. The problem is the VVT cams are designed around the limitations of the system and how much spring pressure you can run. This is a hugely limiting factor in what cam profiles you can run.

Also, while I applaud some shops for doing development work with the VVT system, we would never chance this with a customer's vehicle. We would choose durability and reliability over making 5-10 hp more ANY day of the week. Even GM admits that there is a system design limit on the VVT camshafts, which is part of the reason why every engine with VVT utilizes such a small camshaft. Being our company was founded over 60 years ago in the OEM engineering and development side of the automotive business, we know simply having 10, 15, 30, etc cars that you have had successes with does not mean it's "perfectly fine". Proper development takes much more work than trying it out on a handful of cars and saying "well, it hasn't been an issue so far".

Again, I am not saying that you cant make more power with VVT, I am simply stating that to us, the power gains are not worth the potential engine damage. Just like the small cost for a timing sprocket is worth us making it standard across the board on all of our installs.

[Jason7]

You my friend a far more experienced than i am BUT talking to extremely reputable tuners on this website have told me its a waste of money and quote on quote a piece of mind only. When I questioning this they explained that they have tested (Rigorously) 850whp cars on single bolt setups with ZERO failures. Then after questioning that, they assured me that even the single bolt cars that are landing into the hands of hard drivers still none have returned with an issue sustained from a single bolt.

FYI I'm not trying to start a debate whether or not that extra hundred dollars is well spent on a conversion, I just wanted to know the validity of that "Piece of mind"

Thank you sir,

Jason

[Andy@Livernois]

Originally Posted by Jason7

You my friend a far more experienced than i am BUT talking to extremely reputable tuners on this website have told me its a waste of money and quote on quote a piece of mind only. When I questioning this they explained that they have tested (Rigorously) 850whp cars on single bolt setups with ZERO failures. Then after questioning that, they assured me that even the single bolt cars that are landing into the hands of hard drivers still none have returned with an issue sustained from a single bolt.

FYI I'm not trying to start a debate whether or not that extra hundred dollars is well spent on a conversion, I just wanted to know the validity of that "Piece of mind"

Thank you sir,

Jason

not certain where the hundred dollars comes from, but its like 40-50 bucks for a sprocket and arp cam bolts. unless you mean to scrap VVT, then, yes, its more costly.

here is the issue with what most people call "tested" on most web forums. Its that they built, 1, 2, maybe 3 cars with a certain setup, and it was fine, so that means all of them will be fine. This is not to discredit anyone on here, I am simply stating that the 3-bolt cam setup along with a dowel has much less of a chance to fail that a single TTY bolt and a dowel. Maybe I am being paranoid, or over cautious. But when it comes to one of my customers (or someone that I am advising on a build) you can bet I will give them my honest, cautious advice. I treat every customer's car like it's my own, and make recommendations based on such.

[Jason7]

Gotcha, well thanks for all the information and time Andy. I was obviously pursuaded into thinking that sticking with a single bolt would be ok, but looks like my mind is leaning towards the safer side..

JASON