O man, help me choose.....HPT or efi live

[Rhino79]

Originally Posted by YO-EL

INCORRECT INFO THERE BRO...
He is WRONG!
EFI Live gives you access to EVERY table in the PCM

HP Tuners is the one where tables are hidden, locked, and even on available tables have pre determined set limits..

Concerning customer service, both have active online forums.
However for FRIENDLY help, where people will actually ANSWER your questions, the EFI Live forum is where its at.

When I was on the HP Tuners forum, all I got, every time I made a post was "use the search" or "why should we help you, when we did all the legwork"?

Buy HP Tuners if you like, but sooner or later you'll want to adjust something & find the table is not there.... Then like me, you'll get EFI Live and never look back..

Just relating personal experience..

I wish I could agree as I have efilive. I love efilive, but HPT has about 3 times as many trans parameters for the t43. Multiple T42 cals in efilive still don't have wot lockup tables for the tq converter, causing stalled vehicles to lock even when commanded not to in the part throttle tables. How do I know? I had to pm and email ross at efilive for him to dig into the t42 cal I had and find the tables I was looking for so I could keep the converter unlocked at wot. Look at the t43 threads on efilive's forum. I have absolutely blown a gasket about lack of tables and was told point blank that they don't care, it's too hard to work with, and they are focused on diesel now because it is very profitable to them.

In the end, either program can and does have more tables than the other depending on who is breaking all the code down. They are the ones who decide what parameters they put in their program for the end user to have access to.

Right now, as bad as I hate to admit it.....HPT is kicking Efi's ass in the trans department. Now the e38, thats a different story. EFI's vve tuning is a breeze and done inside the program rather than having to be configured externally.

BTW, I have both software's on the laptop to compare a stock t43 tables. Night and day difference.

[JLE58]

Seems like to me most people around here are now using HPT... EFI was the way to go a few years ago but seems like HPT has passed them up and EFI live is falling behind. This has happend with every Tuning program for ls1's it seems over the years. You will hear how great one software is and everyone starts tuning with it then a few years later the " crappy software" has past the other up. Remember LS1 Edit?

[white ZL1]

Originally Posted by JLE58

Remember LS1 Edit?

Sure do. I started with TunerCat and Datamaster on the LT1 cars.
Holy crap! Just looked at the Tunercat site and they have support for the 2010 and 2011 Camaro!

[Camarowguy]

My buddy tuned my truck with tunercat. It looked simple to use, he walked me through a few things on it. I just looked on their website but I have no idea what I would order. Price seems cheaper too.

[JLE58]

Everytime i hear some one say tunercat i want to yell " thundercats thundercats whoo ohh!" ....... Op I believe HPT is the best for the 5th gen hands down no one can argue this and if they do they are just being hard headed. Looks Like Sct is really trying to break into the Pro tuner world with some of the stuff they are updating with something to look at since its no longer the little hand held it once was.

[Camarowguy]

Originally Posted by JLE58

Everytime i hear some one say tunercat i want to yell " thundercats thundercats whoo ohh!" ....... Op I believe HPT is the best for the 5th gen hands down no one can argue this and if they do they are just being hard headed. Looks Like Sct is really trying to break into the Pro tuner world with some of the stuff they are updating with something to look at since its no longer the little hand held it once was.

I looked up the sct software. It looks like you make your own tunes and load them into a sct handheld and flash your ECM. That's pretty much what I'm looking for. I need to read more on it.

[YO-EL]

Anyone remember Steve Cole's, "Powerloader"??

[Steck]

Originally Posted by YO-EL

INCORRECT INFO THERE BRO...
He is WRONG!
EFI Live gives you access to EVERY table in the PCM

HP Tuners is the one where tables are hidden, locked, and even on available tables have pre determined set limits..

Concerning customer service, both have active online forums.
However for FRIENDLY help, where people will actually ANSWER your questions, the EFI Live forum is where its at.

When I was on the HP Tuners forum, all I got, every time I made a post was "use the search" or "why should we help you, when we did all the legwork"?

Buy HP Tuners if you like, but sooner or later you'll want to adjust something & find the table is not there.... Then like me, you'll get EFI Live and never look back..

Just relating personal experience..

The problem with the Internet is that misinformation spreads like wildfire.

Yes, the virtual VE in EFI live is nice. However, HPT has access to WAY more tables. EFI Love doesn't even come close on A6 parameters. Anything people want added, HPT typically adds. They also impose limits that pertain to the operating system. EFI Live does something similar, and they even warn users not to go past the OS limits. Also, HPT is adding a "virtual VE" function.

I've done simple setups and extreme setups, and HP Tuners has been able to handle all of it perfectly.

[JLE58]

Originally Posted by Camarowguy

I looked up the sct software. It looks like you make your own tunes and load them into a sct handheld and flash your ECM. That's pretty much what I'm looking for. I need to read more on it.

You could even pay someone like Ted who is real good with sct to check your tune for you while you are learning. May cost a little but at least you would know it is right and would be learning a ton the A6 in these cars is something just a few people have down really good. I still think HPT would be the way to go since your wanting to tune more than one car unless you can know do it with SCT. Remember that HPT has a pretty good resale value too if your ever done messing with it or decide its not for you.

[Camarowguy]

Originally Posted by JLE58

You could even pay someone like Ted who is real good with sct to check your tune for you while you are learning. May cost a little but at least you would know it is right and would be learning a ton the A6 in these cars is something just a few people have down really good. I still think HPT would be the way to go since your wanting to tune more than one car unless you can know do it with SCT. Remember that HPT has a pretty good resale value too if your ever done messing with it or decide its not for you.

You have some really good points!

[bluetorp]

Another vote for HPT. I've used both, and vastly prefer the way that HPT is set up. I learned on HPT, though, so take that with a grain of salt I guess. Demo both and see which one feels more intuitive to you from a user interaction standpoint.

EFI Live handling virtual VE inside the program is nice. Currently with HPT you have to import the coefficients into a third party program to build a VE table, do your editing, and then export it back into coefficient form. Not complicated, but an extra step. HPT is working on an in-program virtual VE solution, as well.

[Camarowguy]

I have no idea what a virtual ve is, so I probably won't miss it....

[Rhino79]

The newer ecms don't have a true ve table. They use several different coefficients to figure volumetric efficiency based on multiple variables.
The vve coefficients (and older ve tables) are something that many people neglect tuning. It is your base fuel map that is based mainly off of manifold pressue and engine rpm. The ecm uses a blend of vve and maf for closed loop operation. At wot you will be tuning MAF.
A bolt on car, or stock engine shouldn't really need much in the area of vve, but with increased cubes, cam, or forced induction, the vve will need to be recalibrated.
SO ideally you would disable the MAF, disable fuel trims, disable decel fuel cut off, and setup a few other open loop and commanded fuel tables, tune the vve. Re-enable maf, and tune it.

[Ace1USMC]

Originally Posted by Rhino79

The newer ecms don't have a true ve table. They use several different coefficients to figure volumetric efficiency based on multiple variables.
The vve coefficients (and older ve tables) are something that many people neglect tuning. It is your base fuel map that is based mainly off of manifold pressue and engine rpm. The ecm uses a blend of vve and maf for closed loop operation. At wot you will be tuning MAF.
A bolt on car, or stock engine shouldn't really need much in the area of vve, but with increased cubes, cam, or forced induction, the vve will need to be recalibrated.
SO ideally you would disable the MAF, disable fuel trims, disable decel fuel cut off, and setup a few other open loop and commanded fuel tables, tune the vve. Re-enable maf, and tune it.

How did you learn to tune to this level of detail? Do you do this for a living? I've seen courses for EFILive - but spending $1500 for a course when I don't even do it professionally is not within the realm of reality.

Since I own a 2007 Duramax, going with EFILive is a no-brainer for me...but how the heck do I learn how to use it effectively without spending a lotta dough??

Sam