Stock 2010 GT500 vs. Magnuson 2SS

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by blackedout010

honestly if your looking for only 500 rwhp?? then the camaro would be cheapest way out. if your gonna want more which in most occasions we all do lol the gt500 is the best bet. a tvs,kb, or whipple upgrade and your at 700+ rwhp safely!! will the camaro do that? yes! but not safely without dumpin alotta more money into car. tough decision there both awesome cars in my opinion.

Technically, though...you have to shell out that money to get into a GT500 anyways. You could take that difference in cost (depending on what options you want -- me, for instance, I just want a 1SS/RS...so it's a lota mula) and pump it into the Camaro...

[pharmd]

The GXP 552rwhp/496rwtq with an average CAI and no other mods.

http://www.g8board.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14764

So technically because the SS is rated higher hp from the factory makes this a legit #....so the stock GT500 at 430rwhp is no where near 552rwhp for the SS...I was told a CAI, pulley and tune will add 100-120 rwhp..if that is the case that puts it in line with the TVS 1900 used in this test...NOW, add headers, exhaust, meth and a few other tweeks and use a 2300 instead of the 1900 and I think you'll find the SS compares pretty favorably to the GT500 for even $$.

If I were going after a GT500 though, I'd spend $4500 on a built shortblock, reuse my heads, throw in a blower cam, add the TVS 2300 and be done with it. You might be like a grand or two over the price of the GT500, but I'd still say it would be close to even money (because the GT500 will have to be modded at that point). But even a modded GT500 (considering a stock ported blower) would still not out run a built shortblock TVS 2300 camaro...Mid 10's @ 130 ish is what a ported blower, fully built, modded suspension, slicks GT500 will run...I think you'll find the capabilities of a built shortblock TVS 2300 SS would be at least that or better (and when I say built shortblock, you can find 418's built with forged internals for FI for under $5K FWIW). With regards to warranty, most of the guys posting in this thread could care less about warranty...if you are talking about FI, cams, Heads etc and are concerned about warranty, you need to turn your computer off and go read a book, because your gonna be dissappointed when you blow your motor.

The GT500 is a remarkable car no doubt, but IMHO even fords aftermarket does not rival Chevy's LSX aftermarket.

[garagelogic]

Originally Posted by pharmd

The GXP 552rwhp/496rwtq with an average CAI and no other mods.

http://www.g8board.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14764

So technically because the SS is rated higher hp from the factory makes this a legit #....so the stock GT500 at 430rwhp is no where near 552rwhp for the SS...

Where did you come up with 430rwhp on the 2010 GT500? That would be around a 21% loss through the drivetrain, which we know is not the case. I say the 2010 GT500, rated at 540hp at the flywheel, will be more in the 470-480rwhp range, stock. It's still not going to get to the 552rwhp number you listed above, but it's a heck of a lot closer than you projected. And i still contend that the car you reference had a cam, too.

Heck, my 2007 GT500, rated at 500hp at the crank put down over 430rwhp, stock.

[blackedout010]

Originally Posted by pharmd

The GXP 552rwhp/496rwtq with an average CAI and no other mods.

http://www.g8board.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14764

So technically because the SS is rated higher hp from the factory makes this a legit #....so the stock GT500 at 430rwhp is no where near 552rwhp for the SS...I was told a CAI, pulley and tune will add 100-120 rwhp..if that is the case that puts it in line with the TVS 1900 used in this test...NOW, add headers, exhaust, meth and a few other tweeks and use a 2300 instead of the 1900 and I think you'll find the SS compares pretty favorably to the GT500 for even $$.

If I were going after a GT500 though, I'd spend $4500 on a built shortblock, reuse my heads, throw in a blower cam, add the TVS 2300 and be done with it. You might be like a grand or two over the price of the GT500, but I'd still say it would be close to even money (because the GT500 will have to be modded at that point). But even a modded GT500 (considering a stock ported blower) would still not out run a built shortblock TVS 2300 camaro...Mid 10's @ 130 ish is what a ported blower, fully built, modded suspension, slicks GT500 will run...I think you'll find the capabilities of a built shortblock TVS 2300 SS would be at least that or better (and when I say built shortblock, you can find 418's built with forged internals for FI for under $5K FWIW). With regards to warranty, most of the guys posting in this thread could care less about warranty...if you are talking about FI, cams, Heads etc and are concerned about warranty, you need to turn your computer off and go read a book, because your gonna be dissappointed when you blow your motor.

The GT500 is a remarkable car no doubt, but IMHO even fords aftermarket does not rival Chevy's LSX aftermarket.

still a tuff comparison!! im sorry but yea you can get a shortblock for 5k but if you ever done a big setup like this youl know you run into surpirses and problems. it will take more money than your thinking. also keep in mind when it comes to boost a modular motor loves boost!!!!! its apples to oranges! it will be a better comparison had they made the z28. with that being said the z28 woulld have been priced near the cobra also

[blackedout010]

Originally Posted by garagelogic

Where did you come up with 430rwhp on the 2010 GT500? That would be around a 21% loss through the drivetrain, which we know is not the case. I say the 2010 GT500, rated at 540hp at the flywheel, will be more in the 470-480rwhp range, stock. It's still not going to get to the 552rwhp number you listed above, but it's a heck of a lot closer than you projected.

Heck, my 2007 GT500, rated at 500hp at the crank put down over 430rwhp, stock.

agreed!!! in the end to get both 700+ rwhp and retain daily driver its easier with the cobra. but your gonna spend around the same for both! id say $17-20k for the CAMARO (THthats driveline, fuel, engine, instal, and all) and $9k-$11k for the cobra (same with exception of not touching engine)

[garagelogic]

Originally Posted by blackedout010

agreed!!! in the end to get both 700+ rwhp and retain daily driver its easier with the cobra. but your gonna spend around the same for both! id say $17-20k for the CAMARO (THthats driveline, fuel, engine, instal, and all) and $9k-$11k for the cobra (same with exception of not touching engine)

I spent less than $6K on my GT500 and I can easily get over700rwhp with just a swap to a smaller pulley.

Here's the sheet from the very first time I had the car on the dyno with the KB in place. This is with the 3.25" upper pulley on the blower making about 12.5lbs of boost and the KB mailorder tune.

[blackedout010]

Originally Posted by garagelogic

I spent less than $6K on my GT500 and I can easily over700rwhp with just a swap to a smaller pulley.

Here's the sheet from the very first time I had the car on the dyno with the KB in place. This is with the 3.25" upper pulley on the blower making about 13lbs of boost and the KB mailorder tune.

yea i know you can get the power that cheap. i added the extra few grand for drivline and beefing up suspension for hard use.

[Georgie]

Originally Posted by truth411

Am I missing something here, the Camaro ss with a 2300 TVS supercharger and a tune will make well over 500+ hp at the wheels depending on how much boost. Acording to the original post when one compare this theoretical SS to a Bone Stock GT-500, the GT-500 will loose. But if the GT-500 switch to a smaller pulley (thus no longer stock) Then it is all over for the Camaro SS in a straight line. But the camaro ss is built more for the race track than the drag strip like the GT-500. A modded Camaro ss will probaly slaughter a GT-500 at a race track with plenty of money to spare. Case in point, Roush Mustang may loose in a straight line to the GT-500, but on a race track they whip the GT-500 like a red headed step child even though they have less HP. This is how I see it, If your defenition of "performance" means going fast in a straight line and thats it, and your definition of "handling" means having the ability to come back around and make another pass at the drag strip, If that is your criteria then the GT-500 is the perfrect car for you. If your defintion of "Performance" means straight line acceleration + Braking + handling etc.. then the Camaro is the Better car especially when equipt with a blower. The stock camaro weight distribution is 52/48 with a blower it may be like 53/47.

too much top gear... the roush suspension is nothing fancy; just bolt on mods to the current mustang suspension. not much different from whats in the GT500 and those parts are of course available for all mustangs across the board. the common misconception is that these cars handle poorly on the track. thankfully, the new track pack has helped remedy that somewhat, but stereotypes remain.

[THE EVIL TW1N]

Originally Posted by garagelogic

I spent less than $6K on my GT500 and I can easily over700rwhp with just a swap to a smaller pulley.

Here's the sheet from the very first time I had the car on the dyno with the KB in place. This is with the 3.25" upper pulley on the blower making about 13lbs of boost and the KB mailorder tune.

the hp was still climbing, should have revved it out!

[garagelogic]

Originally Posted by THE EVIL TW1N

the hp was still climbing, should have revved it out!

Well, therein lies the problem. While the bottom end of the GT500 is forged, the rods are still the weak link in the assembly. Making big power and taking the revs over 6250 is a recipe for disaster.

If you look around, in almost every case where there has been a GT500 engine failure, it is because the owner/driver took the revs too high. I'd rather keep the car intact than worry about putting down the absolute best number on a dyno or at the track.

[truth411]

Originally Posted by garagelogic

I spent less than $6K on my GT500 and I can easily over700rwhp with just a swap to a smaller pulley.

Here's the sheet from the very first time I had the car on the dyno with the KB in place. This is with the 3.25" upper pulley on the blower making about 13lbs of boost and the KB mailorder tune.

Hmmm, didn't you just confirm post #43?? The topic is a stock 2010 GT-500 Vs a Camaro SS with a 2300 tvs blower. If the GT-500 remains stock, then the Camaro will out accelerate the GT-500 in the 1/4 mile. But the moment the GT-500 gets modded then it is all over for the Camaro in a straight line. The GT-500 is first and formost a Drag car, plain and simple. Yes you can take it to the track, but with 58% of its weight on the front wheels, don't expect to be as dominant on a race track VS the Drag strip. A camaro with a blower would dominent on a race track and be very competitve on the drag strip. A modded GT-500 would be dominant on the drag strip and competitve on a track IMO.

[pharmd]

Originally Posted by garagelogic

Where did you come up with 430rwhp on the 2010 GT500? That would be around a 21% loss through the drivetrain, which we know is not the case. I say the 2010 GT500, rated at 540hp at the flywheel, will be more in the 470-480rwhp range, stock. It's still not going to get to the 552rwhp number you listed above, but it's a heck of a lot closer than you projected.

Heck, my 2007 GT500, rated at 500hp at the crank put down over 430rwhp, stock.

Those were the numbers you gave me when I asked you what they were putting down...I guess you were just referring to the pre-2010 rwhp #'s...having said that the pre-2010 GT500 was rated at 500 crank hp right? The new one @ 540...so you said the pre-2010 was good for 430rwhp, while the 2010 470-480...if it was rated for 40 more crank hp than the pre-2010, it certainly won't be putting all 40 to the tire...probably more like 450-465rwhp depending upon dyno and weather etc.

I agree that the modability of the GT500 with FI is superior to the Chevy without touching the shortblock...just saying the LS3 with TVS will be more economical and fomidable opponent that what you guys are lead to believe at this point....but of course time will tell.

[pharmd]

Originally Posted by blackedout010

still a tuff comparison!! im sorry but yea you can get a shortblock for 5k but if you ever done a big setup like this youl know you run into surpirses and problems. it will take more money than your thinking. also keep in mind when it comes to boost a modular motor loves boost!!!!! its apples to oranges! it will be a better comparison had they made the z28. with that being said the z28 woulld have been priced near the cobra also

I am very familiar with shortblock changes...(see my sig, TBSS didn't come with a 418)...It can be done right and inexpensively if you know what your doing, especially when you are willing to fabricate and do things on your own.

As I've said, the Ford is most certainly a formitable beast, I just think you (especially with built shortblock) are underestimating the potential of the LS3...I also am not throwing a bunch of options on there like the OP had stated either...I think that a 2SS level with RS is adequate...so your at 35 and change...add 6K for the SC 5K for 416 SB...i think everything there is in line for the cost to be equal to or less than that of a modded GT500, and I can assure you that power potential will be comparable...

The real point of all this is that the vast majority of people are religating their car to a weekend (at best) car when you step to this level of performance. Sure there are case reports of folks daily driving their 600+rwhp car, but by and large it is and will not happen. People mod themselves out past the point of practicality. I encourage folks not to do this to their cars...from what I have seen across the boards the conservative consensus is 550rwhp is the max quasi safe level for stock short block LS3...I have nothing to back that up, that is just what I have heard quoted more than a few times. Their are exceptions to ever rule of course. JMHO.

[blackedout010]

Originally Posted by pharmd

I am very familiar with shortblock changes...(see my sig, TBSS didn't come with a 418)...It can be done right and inexpensively if you know what your doing, especially when you are willing to fabricate and do things on your own.

As I've said, the Ford is most certainly a formitable beast, I just think you (especially with built shortblock) are underestimating the potential of the LS3...I also am not throwing a bunch of options on there like the OP had stated either...I think that a 2SS level with RS is adequate...so your at 35 and change...add 6K for the SC 5K for 416 SB...i think everything there is in line for the cost to be equal to or less than that of a modded GT500, and I can assure you that power potential will be comparable...

The real point of all this is that the vast majority of people are religating their car to a weekend (at best) car when you step to this level of performance. Sure there are case reports of folks daily driving their 600+rwhp car, but by and large it is and will not happen. People mod themselves out past the point of practicality. I encourage folks not to do this to their cars...from what I have seen across the boards the conservative consensus is 550rwhp is the max quasi safe level for stock short block LS3...I have nothing to back that up, that is just what I have heard quoted more than a few times. Their are exceptions to ever rule of course. JMHO.

i understand that. and yes the ls3 is a nice motor no doubt!! i know it can make the power to win ive owned several lsx cars and even had an ss with a 418 tfs setup from vengeance alot like your tbss!! and like i said before the 2 shouldnt be compared they are not built on the same level the z28 would have been nice no doubt. besides the ls3 wasnt designed for boost either. so it just shouldnt be compared!!!

at the same time i understand your pricing here but ur gona get a shortblock and not touch up heads?? not throw in a blower cam? not upgrade rockers or head studs? go to high with boost got to worry about heads lifting off block. im pretty sure fuels system that comes with tvs prolly wont cover you with anything over 8ilbs of boost ( i could be wrong though). also your gonna need a clutch as well. also your gonna want exhaust!!