So what do I have to do to beat a 5.0

[Deki]

Originally Posted by FNBADAZ06

No doubt they would lose a few tenths going to a 6060. For as long as I've been racing cars, I can't think of another domestic V8 powered car that had such short factory gearing as what the new Mustang's have.....these car's bang thru the gears like a liter bike. IIRC, I was well into 4th gear in my friends 5.0 before I even reached the 1/8 mile....crazy

I cross the line near my 7k limiter at the end of 4th gear at 115mph, and I'm running the stock 3.73 gears from the factory on street tires with a stock overall diameter. Is he running 4.10s?

[8cd03gro]

Originally Posted by FNBADAZ06

So, it looks like you may be agreeing with my original statement.......

"My point of contention is the original comment that "If you're launching over 5000rpm, who cares about low end in a drag race" is not a true statement."

Low end torque, however it's derived at the rear wheels, is the driving force of accelerating the car from a dead stop. You most certainly care about low end at a drag race.....agreed ?

The 5.0 Mustangs extremely short transmission gearing is what is importent here....not the 5000 rpm launch...when talking about a 1/4 mile drag race.

Sure, but weren't we talking about the 5.0, not some hypothetical broad statement? The 5k launch is a result of the gearing, but in what scenario would a powerband like the 5.0s not be matched with shorter gearing than an earlier powerband like the ls3? You're ignoring half the statement you're quoting. "If you're launching at 5,000rpm..."

[cbass]

Agreed and the 5.0 still has plenty of low end torque Remember, it has Twin independant variable cam timing, it is able to phase it's valvetrain throughout the band.

Which is nice, but can't overcome the fact that the ls3 is 6.2L vs 5.0L. There is no replacement for displacement except forced induction . It makes it more rounded than a 5.0 without VVT, but not up to 6.2L spec. It can't overcome an extra 1.2L of displacement. To do that you would need a supercharger or turbo. High peak horsepower you can make with high rpm, which is what they did with the coyote motor with great success and yes if you gear it correctly it can be fast. However, making power at high rpm has disadvantages in other areas.

Why would I launch in 2nd gear? Fact is, the coyote has a 3.66 1st gear with either a 3.31, 3.55 or 3.73 from the factory in a manual transmission.

I may be wrong, but it's not just the transmission gear that matters. You have to account all 3 factors that have an effect on gearing. Transmission gear ratio, final ratio, and wheels.

Challenger, Mustang, Camaro - they're all typical domestic cars. I don't think you're going to find any one being significantly more reliable than the others.

Not true. The younger the product is the greater the chances something will go wrong. The LS3 motor has been used for many years and they had time to make changes and fix issues. The same is true for the TR-6060. The MT82 is a new transmission and the coyote motor is new as well and it had a very short development cycle. You have a greater chance for problems.

can't think of another domestic V8 powered car that had such short factory gearing as what the new Mustang's have.....these car's bang thru the gears like a liter bike.

And that is why I like the LS3 much better. It's a personal choice, but I have never been a big fan of high revving, low geared engines.

[FNBADAZ06]

Originally Posted by Deki

I cross the line near my 7k limiter at the end of 4th gear at 115mph, and I'm running the stock 3.73 gears from the factory on street tires with a stock overall diameter. Is he running 4.10s?

I think he may be running a shorter diameter tire...not sure.
Where do you think you're shifting into 4th gear in relation to you position on the track ?

[8cd03gro]

Originally Posted by FNBADAZ06

? Stock 5.0 Mustang with and exhaust and CAI MN6 and track prep , not sure of the final drive. I ran a 12.86 (IIRC).
By comparision, I shift my car into 3rd right near the 1/8 mark with the following gear ratio's...

First gear 2.66
Second gear 1.78
Third gear 1.30
Fourth gear1.00
Fifth gear0.74
Sixth gear0.50

Final drive ratio3.42

Well in any of the stock configurations, deep into 4th is going to be 100mph or so...

[FNBADAZ06]

Originally Posted by Seer

Can't say this was the case for me, I was shifting into 4th after the 1/8, but I was also running 28" tires shifting the car at about 7300-7500 rpm.

28" tires explains that then. What's the factory rev limiter for a 5.0 ?

[Seer]

Originally Posted by FNBADAZ06

28" tires explains that then. What's the factory rev limiter for a 5.0 ?

Factory is a hair under 7000, but tuned, most of them set it to 7300-7600, as there is still power to be made as well as it sets you up for the next gears torque curve.

[cbass]

Factory is a hair under 7000, but tuned, most of them set it to 7300-7600, as there is still power to be made as well as it sets you up for the next gears torque curve.

Yes, but as discussed and shown earlier in this thead (I think). The stock coyote motor falls flat on its face after 6500 rpm. After 6500 rpm the power starts falling rapidly. In order to overcome that you need to install the boss intake.

[FNBADAZ06]

Originally Posted by Seer

Factory is a hair under 7000, but tuned, most of them set it to 7300-7600, as there is still power to be made as well as it sets you up for the next gears torque curve.

That makes sense to me why you're shifting into 4th gear after the 1/8th mile.

[t-ray]

Originally Posted by Fenderaddict2

DynoJet, although I don't know which model. The first day I pulled 4 very consistent runs. You could practically overlay the charts. The 15hp gain was roughly 10,000 KMs later (love driving this car). Only change to car was Trackey. Ford says it doesn't add horsepower and sure enough the 15HP gain showed on both the black and red keys. Outside temps may have been cooler. My point is the numbers aren't gospel just rough benchmarks for tuning applications.

My previous car was on three different local dynojets, and the graphs were nearly identical. I probably had 60 assorted pulls over 5 years on these dynos, and they all were very close. That is, as long as the same correction factor and gear was used.

I'm not arguing with you; every person has different experiences. I just find the discrepancy interesting.

[Seer]

Originally Posted by cbass

Yes, but as discussed and shown earlier in this thead (I think). The stock coyote motor falls flat on its face after 6500 rpm. After 6500 rpm the power starts falling rapidly. In order to overcome that you need to install the boss intake.

Remember, I was not running a stock coyote motor, cam timing must not of been modified in the tune showing that graph...my bolt on car, without boss intake (terrible mod btw for drag racing, its great if you sustain over 7000 rpm, i.e. road racing) but my power band jumped up to around 7100-7200. I always shift a few hundred rpm over peak hp, to firmly plant myself into the torque curve on the next gear change.

Also it does not fall flat on it's face at 6500, its more around the lines of 6800 it has a decline but not a cliff drop lol.

[t-ray]

Originally Posted by cbass

Yes, but as discussed and shown earlier in this thead (I think). The stock coyote motor falls flat on its face after 6500 rpm. After 6500 rpm the power starts falling rapidly. In order to overcome that you need to install the boss intake.

No, you don't. You can shift the stock intake well north of 7k. Even with the dropping power, the power is still greater than what it would be in the next gear.

[Seer]

Originally Posted by t-ray

No, you don't. You can shift the stock intake well north of 7k. Even with the dropping power, the power is still greater than what it would be in the next gear.

Agreed, I lost a few tenths, shifting below 7000.

[cbass]

[

Originally Posted by Seer

Remember, I was not running a stock coyote motor, cam timing must not of been modified in the tune showing that graph...my bolt on car, without boss intake (terrible mod btw for drag racing, its great if you sustain over 7000 rpm, i.e. road racing) but my power band jumped up to around 7100-7200. I always shift a few hundred rpm over peak hp, to firmly plant myself into the torque curve on the next gear change.

Also it does not fall flat on it's face at 6500, its more around the lines of 6800 it has a decline but not a cliff drop lol.

I am just going by what Ford engineers have said when interviewed:

"Coyote cannot make power any higher than 6,500--the intake manifold shuts it down. This one (the Boss 302 intake) won't shut it down until 7,750. And the reason that I picked 7,750 is that there are actually... you've seen the torque curves on Coyote, there are three very distinct peaks, wiggles in the curve, and I call those 'teeth on a sprocket' So they are tuning modes of the runner; if you change the length of the runner enough, you can actually move one whole tooth."


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