camshaft for v6 camaro

[Jinkz]

Originally Posted by hapisok

there is a term thats been kicked around on here before called "ricer math". and that is where you add the HP gain of one mod with the gain of another (10+10=20). but in reality, the gain you see from a CAI claiming 15HP and a catback 5HP doesn't simply equate to a 20HP gain. overall, all you'd really see is a PEAK 15HP.

remember, not all mods provide a gain at peak HP, some are down low where the peak gain of 10HP is only recognized say between 2500RPM and 4000RPM. others (CAI for instance) don't show much of a gain till you get into the higher RPM between 4000-7000RPM. CAI's can actually drop you're low end HP/TQ, but that is another discussion.

simply put, mods aren't additive in the sense we'd like to think. the gains they (vendors) show are generally on a stock setup (because thats how they do their testing for the general public) and as you start stacking mods, the gain isn't going to be as dramatic of a number in comparison to the gains from a stock setup.

hope this makes sense.

No I understand completely. CAIs just like any other mod doesn't add a consistent 15 hp I understood that.

[KMPrenger]

Originally Posted by Jinkz

2011 comes stock with 312 to the crank plus like 15 for tune like 13 MAYBE for catback. 33 for headers. CAI 15 ported throttle body 7
395 to the crank Times .15 = 59.25 395-59
336rwhp
316Rwhp when 20%
can someone tell me if I'm Doing that wrong lol. Idk how I could be but that was what I got
(unless the description gave me an exact number I cut their estimation difference in half. Example RACING STRIPES ADD 15-20 horse power I subtracted them and divided the left number by to. And added it back to lowest number. 20-15=5/2 = 2.5+15 17.5 or 18)

Its actually more like this:

Tune: Maybe 10 HP
catback: 5 HP
Headers: 15 HP
CAI: another 5 - 15 (depending on what you have and the other mods you have)
Ported TB: 0 - 5

The numbers would be higher if it was just one mod on a stock car, but once you start adding more mods, the increase in power per mod is not as great as it would be by itself on a stock car.

all in all your looking at somewhere between 340 to 350 tops...and thats if all factors like weather are good. If you car is heat soaked...that will lower the numbers but again thats a different discussion.

So take 340 * .8 (for an auto - 20% loss or around that) and you get 272rwhp. So I'd guess between 270 and 280 rwhp for an automatic with the above mods.

[Hellrazor]

Originally Posted by hapisok

there is a term thats been kicked around on here before called "ricer math". and that is where you add the HP gain of one mod with the gain of another (10+10=20). but in reality, the gain you see from a CAI claiming 15HP and a catback 5HP doesn't simply equate to a 20HP gain. overall, all you'd really see is a PEAK 15HP.

remember, not all mods provide a gain at peak HP, some are down low where the peak gain of 10HP is only recognized say between 2500RPM and 4000RPM. others (CAI for instance) don't show much of a gain till you get into the higher RPM between 4000-7000RPM. CAI's can actually drop you're low end HP/TQ, but that is another discussion.

simply put, mods aren't additive in the sense we'd like to think. the gains they (vendors) show are generally on a stock setup (because thats how they do their testing for the general public) and as you start stacking mods, the gain isn't going to be as dramatic of a number in comparison to the gains from a stock setup.

hope this makes sense.

That's about as well as I've ever seen that explained to someone. Propers.

[Jinkz]

[QUOTE=KMPrenger;5010444

The numbers would be higher if it was just one mod on a stock car, but once you start adding more mods, the increase in power per mod is not as great as it would be by itself on a stock car.
[/QUOTE]

Well I think that's true to an extent...but. I think anything that has to do with intake. PERSONALLY think that anything to do with intake like cai ported tb and spacer actually aren't used properly without a tune... And I think it's safe to say that if a car was breathing in might actually make it do more hp increase if you up'd the amount of air leaving the car. Just my .02 cents. But I couldn't tell u a spark plug from pudding. So what do I know. But it just sounds logical to me.

[hapisok]

Originally Posted by Jinkz

Well I think that's true to an extent...but. I think anything that has to do with intake. PERSONALLY think that anything to do with intake like cai ported tb and spacer actually aren't used properly without a tune... And I think it's safe to say that if a car was breathing in might actually make it do more hp increase if you up'd the amount of air leaving the car. Just my .02 cents. But I couldn't tell u a spark plug from pudding. So what do I know. But it just sounds logical to me.

you are correct about air flow in and out of the engine. more air in means you need to keep it flowing through and out the exhaust. there are all kinds of bottle necks like you mentioned. not to mention more air means more fuel and the need for a re-tune. the ECU can handle some of this within its own parameters but can only do so much.

the ported TB doesn't require a tune as it's only function is to help with air flow velocity. by porting the outer edges, there is a smoother transition from the CAI tube to the TB itself. it also creates more of a venturi effect which helps increase the rate at which the plenum can refill after you smash the peddle...hence why it improves throttle response.

the spacer (25mm) does a couple things. there is more science behind this but increasing the runner length shifts the TQ band to the left. it also isolates the air passing through the intake manifold from the engine heat (cooler air = denser air = more oxygen = more power).

a basic tune will cover mods that increase air intake volume (like a CAI) and adjust fuel trims to meet those requirements. i could be wrong, but i don't believe there is much to tune for on the exhaust side. generally, headers are tuned to produce optimum power for the motor within a certain RPM range. primary diameter and length, and then collector length. ex: longer collector is beneficial for mid range TQ. the more advanced tuning changes timing, AFR's, fuel tables, fuel injector pulse, etc...

but at what point do you sacrifice daily drive ability with maximum HP or dumping $$$$ to build out the motor? ...sorry, off topic. there are a lot of things that can be done to increase HP...but once you start reaching the limitations of the motor itself (assuming you aren't physically changing the internal dimensions of the motor) the mods that you add have a very limited addition to the final HP output.

EX:
MOD's claimed HP gain:
CAI = 15
LT Headers = 30
Insulator = 20
--------------------
total HP gain = 65 (WRONG!)

BBK LT headers claim a 33 HP. but that gain is at 5500 RPM (max HP 255-stock, 273-headers) max gain is really only 18HP
Injen CAI claim a gain of ??? not sure but its around 15HP. independent testing showed 17max...but in what RPM range is that gain?
-what if they both share the same RPM range for their claimed gain?

even with a gain of 18HP from headers and 17HP from CAI, your overall HP gain will not be 35HP. it will be a mash up of the two and hopefully net you something close to 22-25HP overall IF your lucky. not every mod adds HP, some just improve functionality and driveability to suit your needs. others do add HP and work together as a collective to improve overall output, but their output is more of an average vs a total of the sum.

not trying to insult your intelligence, just trying to explain how some things work and why.

[bcperry]

Oh no you don't second page. You will not hide this one from me.

[MACE_ENG]

Originally Posted by hapisok

you are correct about air flow in and out of the engine. more air in means you need to keep it flowing through and out the exhaust. there are all kinds of bottle necks like you mentioned. not to mention more air means more fuel and the need for a re-tune. the ECU can handle some of this within its own parameters but can only do so much.

the ported TB doesn't require a tune as it's only function is to help with air flow velocity. by porting the outer edges, there is a smoother transition from the CAI tube to the TB itself. it also creates more of a venturi effect which helps increase the rate at which the plenum can refill after you smash the peddle...hence why it improves throttle response.

the spacer (25mm) does a couple things. there is more science behind this but increasing the runner length shifts the TQ band to the left. it also isolates the air passing through the intake manifold from the engine heat (cooler air = denser air = more oxygen = more power).

a basic tune will cover mods that increase air intake volume (like a CAI) and adjust fuel trims to meet those requirements. i could be wrong, but i don't believe there is much to tune for on the exhaust side. generally, headers are tuned to produce optimum power for the motor within a certain RPM range. primary diameter and length, and then collector length. ex: longer collector is beneficial for mid range TQ. the more advanced tuning changes timing, AFR's, fuel tables, fuel injector pulse, etc...

but at what point do you sacrifice daily drive ability with maximum HP or dumping $$$$ to build out the motor? ...sorry, off topic. there are a lot of things that can be done to increase HP...but once you start reaching the limitations of the motor itself (assuming you aren't physically changing the internal dimensions of the motor) the mods that you add have a very limited addition to the final HP output.

EX:
MOD's claimed HP gain:
CAI = 15
LT Headers = 30
Insulator = 20
--------------------
total HP gain = 65 (WRONG!)

BBK LT headers claim a 33 HP. but that gain is at 5500 RPM (max HP 255-stock, 273-headers) max gain is really only 18HP
Injen CAI claim a gain of ??? not sure but its around 15HP. independent testing showed 17max...but in what RPM range is that gain?
-what if they both share the same RPM range for their claimed gain?

even with a gain of 18HP from headers and 17HP from CAI, your overall HP gain will not be 35HP. it will be a mash up of the two and hopefully net you something close to 22-25HP overall IF your lucky. not every mod adds HP, some just improve functionality and driveability to suit your needs. others do add HP and work together as a collective to improve overall output, but their output is more of an average vs a total of the sum.

not trying to insult your intelligence, just trying to explain how some things work and why.

Darn...aaron, that was one long arse post lol but very informative. Did you get my email about the gnumeric read problem? Send that log over to me as requested when you get the chance. I miss going over my logs lol.

TEAM MACE

[MACE_ENG]

Got some results back from an LY7 we did, with gains of around 50rwhp, with clearly much more room for improvement with the tune! Still waiting on an revised tune based on logs now :(

The way it looks is that these engines are simply begging for a cam upgrade FI seems a little overrated now LOL

[xx_ED_xx]

The afr defintely needs to come down

[OOLIE]

Big gains but would like to see real life camaro numbers. I am sure they are coming so I will be more excited then.

[Jinkz]

Originally Posted by MACE_ENG

Got some results back from an LY7 we did, with gains of around 50rwhp, with clearly much more room for improvement with the tune! Still waiting on an revised tune based on logs now :(

The way it looks is that these engines are simply begging for a cam upgrade FI seems a little overrated now LOL

Why you no do on LLT
lol. LY7 is just like the LLT though right? What's the hold up im getting ancy

[KMPrenger]

So what is the stock HP rating for the LY7 engines? I thought it was like 260 or something like that?

Either way, those look to be like some huge gains there....wow. I can't wait until we finally get to see the very first cammed and tuned Camaro V6.

[Yellow_Glide]

+1 on cams: and when I thought I was getting to the end of the bolt on list, LOL. Cams, heads, plenum spacer, intake manifold, fuel pump, etc.

I'm thinking we should start a "400NA" group....

[Lil' Nasty]

Originally Posted by Yellow_Glide

I'm thinking we should start a "400NA" group....

+1