MotorTrend Pits the ZL1 vs GT500 on the Street, Dragstrip, and Racetrack

[Angrybird 12]

Originally Posted by shaffe

So Bc M/T car had brake fade all GT500s can only run 1 lap before the brakes start to crap out, when the other reviews praised the "fade free brakes"

Ok going by that logic then, didn't one of the first head 2 heads say the Camaro had trouble with the 2-3 shift? so then bc one magazine reported it all ZL1s must have problems with the 2-3 shift right

Where did I say anything about brake fade or the Camaros shifting problems. I am just saying trying to judge which is the best track car on 2 or3 laps is dumb. Not only do you have to account for brake fade, but also heat soak, tire wear and other factors. Everyone knows slipping and sliding a car around the turns heats and wears out the tires so they lose grip. I think if you observe the videos the GT500 is doing much more sliding through the corners than the ZL1 is.

[8cd03gro]

Originally Posted by Angrybird 12

LOL how about a head to head race say 50 laps at road Atlanta against a bone stock GT500.To me that would prove more than 3 laps to which car is most Track Ready.
Any real racing series you would have to add the required safety equipment to either car. But come on now you know what they really mean when they say a car is Track Ready.

Neither car will complete 50 laps at a good pace. These are street cars with street tires. They will both be heatsoaked to death and out of tire long before 50 laps.

[LeviG]

Originally Posted by shaffe

So Bc M/T car had brake fade all GT500s can only run 1 lap before the brakes start to crap out, when the other reviews praised the "fade free brakes"

Ok going by that logic then, didn't one of the first head 2 heads say the Camaro had trouble with the 2-3 shift? so then bc one magazine reported it all ZL1s must have problems with the 2-3 shift right

If you can't get a car into gear, that's kinda on you. Brake fade is brake fade, no matter how you look at it. Maybe the other reviewers didn't test the brakes as hard as MT or maybe it was on a different track that gave the brakes more time to cool because of longer straights or any number of factors. Your Mustang won on the roadcourse AND at the strip. Stop beating a dead horse and celebrate without thinking that you need to constantly rub all Camaro fans' faces in it.

By the way, MT are the ones who made the call that the ZL1 was the all round better car here. I dont actually own a 2012 ZL1 OR a 2013 GT500 and I would bet that NO ONE ELSE here does either. So, ultimately, no one here can call it and have the cred that MT does because they actually had both cars and drove both cars in a controlled environment specifically for testing and comparing purposes.

And if you want to go there about shifting (why I dont know, but whatever) the guy in the MT video said that the Shelby's tranny would not be as easy around town and that the ZL1's shifts were smoother and easier. I'm sure that, if there were a problem with a 2-3 shift, THAT would be the point where he would have mentioned it. Brake fade on the GT500 and the lack of on the ZL1, on the other hand, were talked about throughout the entire video... by BOTH drivers.

I think both cars are incredible and they both did great in all tests performed by MT (Yes even the ZL1 at the strip). Lucky owners of these two works of art should be able to just enjoy driving them, without all the childish fighting about which car is best, especially from people who dont, and never will know for themselves. If you come upon that great day when you in your ZL1/GT500 meet that GT500/ZL1 on the street/strip/track, have fun with it and know that you BOTH own two of the badest cars on the street. Dont be asses about it, just have fun.

Whoever wins should tell the other guy "Nice run, cool car" and whoever loses should tell the other guy "Nice run, cool car".

[LeviG]

Originally Posted by 8cd03gro

Neither car will complete 50 laps at a good pace. These are street cars with street tires. They will both be heatsoaked to death and out of tire long before 50 laps.

There's this little thing called a... "pit stop"...I believe...

[GoldenBear]

Originally Posted by GoldenBear

Please post the link where it was stated that the GT500 would never be faster than the ZL1 on any lap on any road course.

Originally Posted by HumanWiki

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=128453

Al Oppenheiser:
I fully expect the competition to be in our Rear view mirror! I feel that to push the Camaro performance and technology to the limits is right and necessary, because at GM we don't just want to compete, we want to Win!
Wednesday February 9, 2011 3:09 Al Oppenheiser
3:09

Unless you don't consider the GT500 competition.

Originally Posted by HumanWiki

Seriously?

GB "Please post the link where it was stated that the GT500 would never be faster than the ZL1 on any lap on any road course. "

I did just that.. Now, how didn't I prove anything?

Your quote and link do not contain any quote which states that the 2013 GT500 would never be faster than the ZL1 on any lap on any road course, because the quote likely exists only in one's minds.

Originally Posted by 8cd03gro

Really, you couldn't be more obtuse? I'm not going to search through a thousand pages of nonsense in the merged threads to find what you and I both know exist. I doubt anyone ever explicitly stated the gt500 would never be faster on any lap on any road course,

Exactly my point.

Originally Posted by 8cd03gro

but we both know how many many hundreds of times it has been stated the gt500 would not be able to keep up on a road course because it, "won't be able to put the power down" or, "more power isn't going to make it faster on track," etc. Like I said, a few months ago people were even saying it wouldn't be able to match the Boss on the road course.

Again, those are straw man points. The tests and reviews have concluded that the ZL1 is a better overall and road course vehicle than the GT500 is. That was what those on Camaro5 were saying, and it has been concluded by the reviews, so far, that their assessment was correct. That is simply what we are stating.

[Angrybird 12]

Originally Posted by 8cd03gro

Neither car will complete 50 laps at a good pace. These are street cars with street tires. They will both be heatsoaked to death and out of tire long before 50 laps.

Well how many laps would you suggest then? 10? 15? 20?. Come on you know I was just trying to point out that 3 laps is not enough to determine any real conclusion.

[SlingShot]

Originally Posted by shaffe

So Bc M/T car had brake fade all GT500s can only run 1 lap before the brakes start to crap out, when the other reviews praised the "fade free brakes"

Ok going by that logic then, didn't one of the first head 2 heads say the Camaro had trouble with the 2-3 shift? so then bc one magazine reported it all ZL1s must have problems with the 2-3 shift right

The other reviews were reporting one and done test ... Don't feel bad about the GT500, the Boss had the same issues.

[HumanWiki]

Originally Posted by GoldenBear

Your quote and link do not contain any quote which states that the 2013 GT500 would never be faster than the ZL1 on any lap on any road course, because the quote likely exists only in one's minds.

With the way you sling and spin, you should run for public office..

or be a spokesman for the tobacco industry.

[GoldenBear]

Originally Posted by shaffe

What I have a problem with is a lot of people here still say the GT500 is not track ready ...

What has be stated is that the base GT500 is not track ready. The extra cost Track Pack must be added to make the GT500 track ready.

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by Angrybird 12

Where did I say anything about brake fade or the Camaros shifting problems. I am just saying trying to judge which is the best track car on 2 or3 laps is dumb. Not only do you have to account for brake fade, but also heat soak, tire wear and other factors. Everyone knows slipping and sliding a car around the turns heats and wears out the tires so they lose grip. I think if you observe the videos the GT500 is doing much more sliding through the corners than the ZL1 is.

Thats a mistake on me, I thought you were giving the 2-3 lap in reference to when MT said the brakes were fading on their car. I am mistaken there in that I interprepted your post incorrectly.

Originally Posted by LeviG

If you can't get a car into gear, that's kinda on you. Brake fade is brake fade, no matter how you look at it. Maybe the other reviewers didn't test the brakes as hard as MT or maybe it was on a different track that gave the brakes more time to cool because of longer straights or any number of factors. Your Mustang won on the roadcourse AND at the strip. Stop beating a dead horse and celebrate without thinking that you need to constantly rub all Camaro fans' faces in it.

By the way, MT are the ones who made the call that the ZL1 was the all round better car here. I dont actually own a 2012 ZL1 OR a 2013 GT500 and I would bet that NO ONE ELSE here does either. So, ultimately, no one here can call it and have the cred that MT does because they actually had both cars and drove both cars in a controlled environment specifically for testing and comparing purposes.

And if you want to go there about shifting (why I dont know, but whatever) the guy in the MT video said that the Shelby's tranny would not be as easy around town and that the ZL1's shifts were smoother and easier. I'm sure that, if there were a problem with a 2-3 shift, THAT would be the point where he would have mentioned it. Brake fade on the GT500 and the lack of on the ZL1, on the other hand, were talked about throughout the entire video... by BOTH drivers.

I think both cars are incredible and they both did great in all tests performed by MT (Yes even the ZL1 at the strip). Lucky owners of these two worls of art should be able to just enjoy driving them, without all the childish fighting about which car is best, especially from people who dont, and never will know for themselves. If you come upon that great day when you in your ZL1/GT500 meet that GT500/ZL1 on the street/strip/track, have fun with it and know that you BOTH own two of the badest cars on the street. Dont be asses about it, just have fun.

Whoever wins should tell the other guy "Nice run, cool car" and whoever loses should tell teh other guy "Nice run, cool car".

The reason I brought up the shifting is bc it was a problem in the inside line head to head, just as brake fade was only a problem in MT review. None of the other reviews complained about it or mentioned it. Maybe MT was the first to experience it, or maybe they just pushed it that much harder, or maybe their car had been pushed to hard before they got it.

I am not trying to say the GT500 is better, if I come of that way thats not my intention. But to see people still saying the GT500 is only good at straightline blasts is the thing I keep coming back too, the vibe I get here is that the majority believe it too. I love cars and talking debating which is why I post here now.

Originally Posted by GoldenBear

What has be stated is that the base GT500 is not track ready. The extra cost Track Pack must be added to make the GT500 track ready.

can't argue that. I was making my points based on the cars that were compared by MT

[101fng]

Originally Posted by LAWMAN

Look,we all know Ford waited for the performance anouncement of the ZL1 before rushing the "2013" Shelby out in 2012 so Ford could hope to pull some of the ZL1 buyers away from Chevy,....Camaro faithful be patient,G.M. WILL have answer to the Shelby,
anyway as i see it,they are both great high performing cars,it a matter of preference,Ford faithful are gonna buy a mustang,and Chevy faithful are goona buy a Camaro,no matter who wins what,but for me it is and would be a Camaro,they simply look better and ride better(to me)which is all that matters,

ford has always brought out the new model year 6 months early. hence the 64-1/2 mustang. the zl1 had nothing to do with it.

i truly hope that chevy punches back. i wanna see ford up the displacement. i'm tired of these little ****ing 4.6's and 5.0's.

[GoldenBear]

Originally Posted by HumanWiki

With the way you sling and spin, you should run for public office..

or be a spokesman for the tobacco industry.

My vocation (medical industry) requires accuracy and precision, otherwise safety could be at stake. Accordingly, I try to maintain those attributes whenever possible.

[LeviG]

Originally Posted by nanokpsi

That is a bit like saying car "x" is the better car overall. It is all realtive. If you value the ease and repeatability of the results, regardless of the competitions times, then the ZL1 is a better track car FOR YOU. If you best track car is the one that gets around the track the fastest, then the GT500 is the better track car FOR YOU.

I think the whole repeatability thing is a joke anyways. Once you get to know the car and have hours of course time with either, I am will to bet your track results are going to be pretty consistant in either car.

What I'm betting is that once you get to know either car and have hours of course time with either, you're going to buy horsepower and heat management upgrades for your ZL1 and some braking and handling upgrades for you GT500.

[Bob Cosby]

Originally Posted by LeviG

There's this little thing called a... "pit stop"...I believe...

Your going to make a pit stop(s) in a 50 lap race to let the motor cool and/or change a set of stock tires? How long would that take?